New Empire book, why so few magic items?

[Witzig]

I havnt played against any of the other 8th edition armies yet so cant compare, but what has happened to the choice of magic items in this release by comparison.

The previous Empire edition had in excess of 45, now we are down to 9. why?

Seems an unusual design desision as there is more fantastical content to this Empire book than the last couple.

I know you have the magic items in the WHFB rule book, but what about army individuality?

Seems a shame. In my opinion, it has always been part of the game to choose & utilise the magic items judiciously. Guess we dont get to do that so much now.


Is this the way all 8th edition books are going?

[Odin]

Yes, it is the same for all 8th edition books... 8-10 items is now the norm. And yes, it is a shame. Even 15-20 would be enough to add character and variety alongside the common items. But less than 10 is a joke.

[eldargal]

This is possibly the only thing I really don't like about 8th, actually. Having said that, I only ever used a handful of magic items from my army books (to be honest 66% of the items in the old book were rather useless anyway) and it is more than compensated for by seeing actual armies on the battlefield. I agree 15 or so would be much better. I do find myself spending less time looking at magic items and character combinations and more time looking at units which I'm actually pleased about in a way, I'm not a big fan of 'herohammer' style lists.

[yabbadabba]

The lack of army specific magic items is nothing new; overall there has been little change in available magic items, little change to character specific magic items its just now the emphasis has switched back to common items.

[DaemonReign]

Yes it's the new 'standard' it seems. And like the first 3 posters of this thread I can nothing but chime in with it being perhaps my one biggest gripe with 8th Ed. To be fair, it's a pretty small gripe. All out loving 8th Ed when putting all the facts together, and if this sterility of Army Book uniquness (in terms of Magic Items) is the price we have to pay then fine.. All though I do not buy the notion that the "one thing" would somehow exclude the "other".
Like that bit Eldergal mentions about spending less time looking at Magic Item combos and more time looking at units and general army composition. That's true for everyone. It's the same for Daemons and Dwarves (in 8th Ed) - the fact that you got alot of "unique variety" doesn't offset the basic premise of 8th Edition at all. Having twice or trice the amount of Army Specific items wouldn't turn the game into Hero Hammer by a long shot. You need a whole different set of Core Mechanics for that.
So yes, it's a shame.

EDIT
Crossed post with Yabba..
Shared Magic Items are fine. I guess. I just hate how they are supposed to be unique and now there's a couple of them that will show up as duplicates (anyway!) in a lot of games simply because of the scarsity of choices in the actual Army Books.

[huitzilopochtli]

What items have you missed that you feel are not easily replaced by the common magic items?

[DaemonReign]

What items have you missed that you feel are not easily replaced by the common magic items?

Not relevant as far as I am concerned. The choice (and vastness of it) has value in itself.

[Archis]

The simplicity of only having to know about 10 items each book contains has a value as well. I enjoy this for competetive play. I agree that 15-20 would be nice as well.

Really, 8-10 items that got used regularly would be fine. Not a fan of the orc items but the ogre ones are decent!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[yabbadabba]

EDITCrossed post with Yabba..
Shared Magic Items are fine. I guess. I just hate how they are supposed to be unique and now there's a couple of them that will show up as duplicates (anyway!) in a lot of games simply because of the scarsity of choices in the actual Army Books.

As I said mate, its old school. Obviously done from a balance and simplicity perspective. I think the only thing I might have changed would be to have made som SC magic items army generic as well, just to loosen it up a bit. Look, I am an old WFB dog so you rarely see anything really new in this regard. The only thing missing from this and Winds of Magic is the more abusive items and a small rainforest's worth of cards.

[huitzilopochtli]

Not relevant as far as I am concerned. The choice (and vastness of it) has value in itself.

But there are more options now than there were in 7th edition. There are about 85 common magic items compared to ten. Even with the old magic item system you only had 56 items (including common magic items). Now there are over 90 items from which each army can choose. I maintain that the items that have been removed have either only been removed in name, have had their usefulness superseded by new items or spells or were not a defining characteristic of the armies.

[Dreadlordpaul]

Personally i don't agree with the small amount of army specific items and i dont like it as i feel certain armies for example WoC need items and gifts for each god and i feel the small amount of items are not gonna allow that.

[BigbyWolf]

Personally i don't agree with the small amount of army specific items and i dont like it as i feel certain armies for example WoC need items and gifts for each god and i feel the small amount of items are not gonna allow that.

VC still have a healthy list of powers, so I wouldn't worry about the WOC Gifts too much. To be honest, the current list is pretty woeful anyway.

[strongbow]

I must admit I do prefer it with large numbers of army-specific magic items. I know that there is an equivalent generally to most in the main rule book now, but it was just nicer in the army-specific way.

However, all is not lost.

Unless you're playing in a Games Workshop store, or at an organised event, there's no reason why (so long as you and your opponent agree) to take the magic items from an army's 7th edition army book but otherwise use your 8th edition army book.

At competitive level following the rules more strictly is part of the challenge. If you're playing in friendly games you should be able to do whatever the hell you want so long as both people agree and do the same thing. House rules are your friend when it comes to gripes. If you don't like something and neither do your friends, don't do it! Your hobby, your models, your games.

[Dreadlordpaul]

VC still have a healthy list of powers, so I wouldn't worry about the WOC Gifts too much. To be honest, the current list is pretty woeful anyway.

I agree i think theres only 2 or 3 gifts which i have actually found useful

[DaemonReign]

But there are more options now than there were in 7th edition.

That's true in a strict sense. But we'll never escape that those "unique" items are showing up on both sides of the gaming table now since both parties are directed to the same list of items when kitting out their chars. So yeah, it's my 'main gripe' with 8th Ed but like I said it's a pretty small one.. I'm a bit 'frightened' about what will happen once they get around to remake Dwarves, Daemons and to some extent WoC (because with these books it could really get UGLY where-as it's just a small pet-feud with the others) but then again, Ogre Big Names and Vampiric Powers are still in so I guess there's always hope.

[zak]

From what I have seen of the 8th edition books I have no reason to think that GW will do away with Chaos Gifts. If anything they will rewrite them and make them useful as most never see the light of day. My main gripe with the small number of items is that many are still either not useful or over costed. If all 8-10 were useful then the small number wouldn't be such an obvious issue.

[dokfm]

Having said that, I only ever used a handful of magic items from my army books (to be honest 66% of the items in the old book were rather useless anyway) and it is more than compensated for by seeing actual armies on the battlefield.

I agree with this. That anti-Skaven banner from Lizardmen comes to mind. Expensive (if I recall correctly) and only useful against one army (albeit a seemingly popular one). I don't really care about losing out on army-specific magic items because it places more of a focus on the rest of the army as a whole.

[Quinzy]

The lack of magic items does not bother me in the slightest.

The common magic item list covers pretty much what is needed. To duplicate it in each book, with a different name, is pointless. It states as much in the magic item section that these aren't the literal weapon they state they are, but a template for a magic weapon. The Ogre Blade is not one item in the universe, it's any magical weapon that gives it's effect. They've called it the Ogre Blade for the sake of having a name for it.

Magic items, it must be noted, are a buff system for army characters. They neither deserve six pages of items, or should they be considered the crux of an army.

Relying on army-specific magic items in order to retain your sense of uniqueness? Honestly?
Bretonnians and Empire are still vastly different regardless of items, in spite of them being human armies.
Or to consider two fully updated armies:
Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings are still vastly different regardless of items, regardless of both being undead.

Sometimes less really is more.
It really should not be an issue, and I fail to see why it is.

[yabbadabba]

That's true in a strict sense. But we'll never escape that those "unique" items are showing up on both sides of the gaming table now since both parties are directed to the same list of items when kitting out their chars. So yeah, it's my 'main gripe' with 8th Ed but like I said it's a pretty small one.. I'm a bit 'frightened' about what will happen once they get around to remake Dwarves, Daemons and to some extent WoC (because with these books it could really get UGLY where-as it's just a small pet-feud with the others) but then again, Ogre Big Names and Vampiric Powers are still in so I guess there's always hope.

I can see your concerns and your reasons for prefering the previous system mate. If you can hang on 15 years, and if they are still there, no doubt GW will change it around again. I don't see them changing Dwarves too much, partially because they are iconic, and partially because the common items don't contain any "dwarf" feel about them. Same with Chaos Gifts.

[Lord Solar Plexus]

What items have you missed that you feel are not easily replaced by the common magic items?

Rod of Power
Sword of Fate - my all-time favourite, and don't tell me a WH is a sufficient substitute
Sword of Sigismund
Dawn Armour
Armour of Tarnus
Shroud of Magnus - okay, I can probably replicate the effects but it was also another ward
Crimson amulet (not sure how it is called in English)
Crystal ball - really, isn't this a prototype magical item?
Seal of Destruction
Laurels of Victory
Aldred's Casket

Quite a lot, huh?