Death guard

[Johnmclane]

How to build a decent 2000 pts more or less pure death guard list with the current 'dex?¿ Got my spending boots on so thinking going full forgeworld... But how to get it to work and keep the theme ?

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Oh I know there's a new 'dex on the horizon , but got my chaos army since 1997 so I can adapt to it when it comes. My question now is what to build/Paint DG now ?

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[Latro_]

Daemon Prince 155
MoN, Wings

Daemon Prince 155
MoN, Wings

5 Plague marines 170
2x meltaguns, Rhino

5 Plague marines 170
2x meltaguns, Rhino

5 Plague marines 170
2x meltaguns, Rhino

5 Plague marines 170
2x meltaguns, Rhino

5 Plague marines 170
2x meltaguns, Rhino

5 Plague marines 160
2x flamers, Rhino

3 Obilterators 225

3 Obilterators 225

3 Obilterators 225


sad, but true.

[S_A_T_S]

You want competitive or fun? As you want to spend, I would push for a plague hulk or 2 and a squadron of blight drones, because they are awesome models. Definitely one or more Nurgle DPs and you're gonna have to go for a few melta squads, as Latro says. Some converted Nurgle oblits would be pretty cool too. Plog?

[Kelanen]

Yeah how competitive vs how fluffy?

I'd only use one DP, because Nurgle's not that great. All your line squads should be Plague Marines even in a non-Nurgle army, if you're willing to have a squad of Berzerkers you're optimal. Oblits for Heavy, and you FW spend should definitely be Blight Drones - by far the best option CSM have in Fast Attack, and Nurgle to boot.

[blurrymadness]

Hm, to break a bit from the norm I'd go with Nurgle-Havocs using Autocannons. They'll get a price drop by the time you get to use 'em and might have Tank Hunters again.

In the current 'dex I'd aim for:
Nurgle DP
4xPlagues
3x Termicide or 3xDread, AC, ML (they're not bad with the FAQ; though not stellar)
3xAC Havocs or 3xACLC pred

Mix to taste. Mark to taste. All are good models, especially after Forgeworld. All are decent choices that will still be decent next dex (or get better. Plagues might be nerfed a bit; or simply changed substantially. They used to be 18pt T5 dudes with Blight and other weird stuff.)

Oblits I'd expect to see some nerfage or some changes. DPs will always be semi-viable; if they can survive 5th, they can survive whatever the next codex is bringing.

Start small with awesome Plague Marine models and maybe plague havocs, move on from there when the new dex comes out.

[Kelanen]

Hm, to break a bit from the norm I'd go with Nurgle-Havocs using Autocannons. They'll get a price drop by the time you get to use 'em and might have Tank Hunters again.

Not a gamble I'd recommend 3 months before the new codex, but yes, I have the same hopes. Hoping Raptors get a price break and Hit & Run too...

[Johnmclane]

Ordered stuff so I can build mortarion, and his two deathshroud bodyguard.

I already resprayed the land raider, and started to greenstuff it nurgle.

Guess next step will be to bring my old plaugemarines up to current standard.
And order the old pattern armours and nurgle upgrade kits. Building and hoping for cult termies as well .

I'm hoping the next codex will bring something that will give a good heavy support for death guard without having to resort to the obliterators.

Where do I find the rules for the blight drones and do those models really look good ? very hard to see on the FW pictures, seem a bit unimpressive.


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[Reivax26]

Is it just me or do the old school Plaguemarines with the gas masks still look awesome? I've got 3 squads of them and I think they look alot better than the new ones. Also easier to paint.

[Johnmclane]

Is a plaugemarine spam list something that might work, thinking 10x6 in rhinos

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[Vestigialante]

Well, if you're going for full on fluff, the deathguard weren't mechanized I thought.

[Kelanen]

Where do I find the rules for the blight drones and do those models really look good ? very hard to see on the FW pictures, seem a bit unimpressive.

Well it is of course subjective, but I think the Blight Drones look amazing, and a joy to paint too - I have 3 at present. You'll find rules in IA:7 or IA: Apoc 2. The headline is a half-range BattleCannon, S6 Flamer and Reaper Autocannon....

Is it just me or do the old school Plaguemarines with the gas masks still look awesome? I've got 3 squads of them and I think they look alot better than the new ones. Also easier to paint.

Those are only the previous ones, not the really old ones (there's at least two older versions), but yes the spiked German helmets and gas masks are the version I use -much better looking than the current ones, although I do use some current arms scattered around, and the odd FW torso. Current FW version looks amazing though, as do their Nurgle Terminators - by far the best looking terminator.

Well, if you're going for full on fluff, the deathguard weren't mechanized I thought.

Correct. That would be render your army strictly fluff only in 5th, and not even vaguely competitive. We'll have to see in 6th.

[Johnmclane]

Been thinking along these lines:

Daemon prince w wings, mark of nurgle, winds of chaos

5 nurgle terminators, icon o' nurgle, power fist
Landraider

Defiler

Predator autocannons, heavy bolter sponsons

10 plaguemarines, 2 meltaguns, rhino X 4

Also realised I've misplaced all my cult marines from the olden golden days , including plague marines, noise marines and other lost cool stuff. Goddammit!

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[Kelanen]

5 nurgle terminators, icon o' nurgle, power fist
Landraider

Drop the 5 Power Fists. Make 1, possibly 2 chainfists, and then leave the others as power weapons. One should have a Heavy Flamer (model as a vomit cannon, or poisonous gas/liquid projector if you prefer), and seriously consider combi-meltas for the others. Even Raider mounted, it's 5pts a model for a hell of a lot of power and versatility.

About the Land Raider... They really aren't great for CSM - you don't get the MultiMelta, Power of the Machine Spirit, nor the good variants. You don't want your Terminators sitting at the back, so a Godhammer isn't that great for you. If you really must take one, I'd put Plagues in it, and make it scoring, not the Terminators - you are paying for 2+/5++ T5 - and then hiding them in a Raider anyway?

Predator autocannons, heavy bolter sponsons

Unless you are in a strange metagame with hordes (which are basically dead in 5th) this is a bad configuration of Predator (AC/LC is the only game in town), for the armies that Preds are good for. CSM isn't one of those - it has expensive Preds, and better options like Defilers and Obliterators.

At the very least, hold off on buying this part of the force until 6th and the new codex hit - it may be more viable then, but right now this isn't good.

10 plaguemarines, 2 meltaguns, rhino X 4

At least one of these is going to be home camping and anchoring the back row - give it Plasma guns. These units should all be 5 Plagues with 2x Melta - it's one of the principal advantages of Plagues - they get double weapons at 5 man, 5 Plagues are as hard to kill as 15 CSM, and furthermore you are putting them in Rhinos to further protect them.

You can get 6x 5 PM in Rhinos for less points than 4x 10 PM in Rhinos, giving you 50% more special weapons and objective scorers, and a lot more tactical diversity.

[Johnmclane]

Good points! Haven't been using my CSM since second ed more or less so any help I can get will be helpful.
Only thing I don't want to include are non death-guard infantry.

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[FraustyTheSnowman]

The way I run deathguard is 4-6 five man squads in rhinos, two daemon princes, and lots of lesser daemons. I think spamming PMs is a solid option...Things that have problems with PMs will have a hell of a problem with six squads, and things that are good against PMs, well, it was going to be a hard game to begin with.

Are you completely against lesser daemons?

[Kelanen]

...two daemon princes

Prior to the recent Warptime nerf I could see that, but I'd definitely only run one now.

Are you completely against lesser daemons?

They are terrible currently. They are likely to get a lot better in a couple of months, but there won't be much call for Plague Bearers in a list with 6 units of Plague Marines already.

Blight Drones are the thing most needed IMO. Adds speed, autocannons and S8 AP3 pie plates for demeched infantry.

[FraustyTheSnowman]

I consistantly forgot to use warptime, so I haven't used it much the last few times I've played. Two princes, with wings. Sometimes mark of nurgle. I don't think it's the most competitive set up, but if I were going for competitive chaos is one of the last places I would look.

Interesting. Lesser daemons have worked very well for me and a few others I know (anecdotal, I know). What is it you think will be changing in a few months that will make them better?

Completely agree on blight drones. I haven't had a chance to use any yet, but I'm planning on sculpting some up (started one way back when, but at this point what I had done is long gone, probably in some random state).

[Kelanen]

Warptime was amazing - it added over 50% to your damage output, and more importantly you could reroll successes, to make sure you stayed in combat until after their shooting. But, it is no more...

The previous edition had separate specific cult daemons rather than just generic 'lesser daemons' and these were much missed. Given that these were never a broken unit, but were playable competitively, and worked well for fluff players too (and are currently supported in the Daemons codex which they are drawing closer to) I expect a return to that model, but you access to the specific types being unlocked by the rest of your list (probably HQ choice). I've no insider knowledge on that, it's just what happened before, and fits the direction things are going back to.

[FraustyTheSnowman]

I'm familiar with the old codex, been playing chaos fairly consistanty sense second edition. Warptime was amazing, I just repeatedly forgot to use it, so eventually just stopped taking it.

'twould be very nice if they go into that direction. My own guess is for them to remove daemons entirely from the marine codex, and go with what they've done for fantasy. Most of the games I play are rather friendly in nature, so it wont hurt my feelings terribly if they go this route, though I would rather see an official rule allowing daemons, chaos marines, and chaos militia being fieldable together (lost and the damned was one of my all time favorite army lists).

So other than not being as good as they once were is there anything you don't like about lesser daemons? In my own lists, I've used them as mobile cover saves for PMs from plasma shots, blockers from things with too many power weapons, and transport suppression. Granted, I'm not the must ultra competitive player, and far from being in a competitive environment, so maybe luck and opponent skill is playing a lot into it.

[Kelanen]

So other than not being as good as they once were is there anything you don't like about lesser daemons?

They are not cost effective, you can't deploy them on the field at the start, they deepstrike (with all the normal problems reserves entail without modifiers) but you can't bring them in on their own in enemy territory like most deepstrikers when they come early, nor bring them onto your abandoned home objective when they are late - so that's that's the main advantages of deepstike gone, you are now left with a unit that just gets the restrictions and is reliant on what's universally agreed to be the codexes worst mechanic - icons.

So... you are overpaying for an average unit with terrible deployment, that makes you play with more bad stuff in your list, just so that you actually get to bring your mediocre daemons onto the table (whereupon they'll do not a lot!). Other than that, I have nothing against them!

It's safe to say that they will be the worst entry in any list that doesn't field Chaos Spawn. And given the likes of Possessed, Bikers, Raptors, Noise Marines and Thousand Sons that really takes some doing...