Sorry for going off topic, but raptorcide is not that bad. 5 man w/ 2 meltas is just 120 points and usually make their points back before die. And if they not is not that you're loosing much anyways.
Sorry for going off topic, but raptorcide is not that bad. 5 man w/ 2 meltas is just 120 points and usually make their points back before die. And if they not is not that you're loosing much anyways.
Which makes it definitively worse than Termicide on several levels (+15% points cost, 20% more survivability to small arms, DS footprint, assault ability afterwards, etc).
Raptors and Bikers aren't terrible, they are just overpriced for what they achieve, compared to loyalist versions, and compared to other options within the codex. For that matter, the same applies to Possessed (Berzerkers), Noise Marines and 1K Sons (Plague Marines) - it's only Spawn that are outright bad, the others are just not optimal - but that's all it takes.
If it's not the best, then yes it's bad, and if you'll allow "competitive CSM" to pass without calling it an oxymoron, that's why you've never seen a competitive CSM army play Raptors. Or indeed any Fast Attack! (unless FW is allowed).
Last edited by Kelanen; 09-04-2012 at 23:49.
Kelanen
I think 'definitively worse' is a bit of exageration.
3 termicide with 3 combimelta = 105 what is just only 15 points cheaper. But DS footprint? If you mean that big footprint is better then yes.
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/3170/pict0044v.jpg
Anyways, my point was that raptorcide is not that bad, not that they're the very best. But by your words I can imagine you only run plasma plaguerines, DP and oblits :P
Definitively means having a definition, a qualification - something concrete and proveable. So if it was 1pt cheaper it would be definitively better in that aspect.Originally Posted by Soldado
15pts is a significant sum given the sums involved, circa 15%.
I agree - and that is precisely what makes them bad.
A mix of Plasma and Melta Plague Marines (and Berzerkers) but yes. They are the most optimised options.
Kelanen
Huh, I dissagree on most points with the lesser daemons, but like I said, it might have a lot to do with the areas I play in.
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/i...owtopic=156101
I play death guard. This is one of the tacticas that got me into them, have a look. A bit old but moslty still very relevant (not warptime). great advice and explanations.
How do we counter grey knights? they seem geared to destroy our Precious plauge marines
Last edited by khaosmarines; 10-04-2012 at 02:03.
Less so than than the new Dark Eldar!How do we counter grey knights? they seem geared to destroy our Precious plauge marines
Kelanen
Hey, i play a plague marine list with DP obliterators, i was just wondering what do you use to objective sit??
I have been using a plasma/havoc rhino plague marine squad but i feel its just too many points to sit around and do nothing. Especially when my melta/flamer squads are out there doing all the heavy lifting.
Lesser daemons viable? For this role or? what do you use to camp that home objective?
Definitely not Lesser Daemons - they have to Deepstrike next to an icon, so you have to have another unit on the objective to bring them in there.
I use 5 Plagues with Plasma in a Rhino with a Havoc launcher. It anchors the middle of the field, often moving into no-mans land where required, but trying to stay within a move or two of the home objective so it can move back there quickly.
Kelanen
I do a five man PM in rhino squald also, just with a champ and icon...if I feel the daemons would be better off forward, they come in and move forward then they can...if I feel the objective is unlikely to see much action, I'll drop the daemons down and move the rhino up. Also, being that all my PM squads have icons, the daemons can come in as far up field as I need them to.
More wasted points on all those Icons...
Kelanen
Cept for the fact it gets my daemons right where they need to beI think deepstriking traditionally is quite a gamble, playing chaos I consider myself to be already at a dissadvantage and don't like to gamble when things aren't in my favor...when I do feel up to gambling I play daemons.
i was going to model lesser daemons as zombies, so i might give them ago but for more competitive games ill just use the 5 man plasma.
So it sounds like with your plasma squad you move forward somewhat and only move back late game. i'm just worried if something DS on the objective i wont be able to clear them fast enough, i suppose my heavy support can deal with it.
Plague Marines aren't the best against them. Only being 12-24 inch range means the GK will outshoot the plague marines, and assault is hopeless.How do we counter grey knights? they seem geared to destroy our Precious plauge marines
What kills grey knights is what kills all marines. Plasma and battle cannons. Plasma for the 2+ guys and battlecannon for the 3+. You can out range them and should be able to lay down some serious fire before they become a serious threat.
Lash may be best used in a rhino with a sorcerer so that you are safer from his ridiculous wargear. If you don't use lash for fluff reasons then it will be much harder, as instead of hitting 7 or 8 of his guys with a plasma shot you are only hitting 2.
Termicide will be iffy if he takes warp quake so you might need some long range firepower to take out his dreads. Obliterators can't do everything so you might want to invest in some foot slogging terminators with reapers, or some outflanking melta chosen in a rhino or maybe some sort of twin linked lascannons, dreads, preds, or even a land raider as the LR is immune to almost all the GK long range attacks if they stick with psyriflemen.
The Plague Rhino can tank shock them off the objective. Unlike BErzerker Rhinos, Plagues' ride are quite low priority, and I often have a few around at the end of the game.
Kelanen
Whilst not optimal (at all), I run a fairly effective (1,500pt) list that keeps within the Death Guard theme. Additionally, my squads are of the favoured number:
Prince
Nurgle
Wings
Warptime
Prince
Nurgle
Wings
Warptime
7 Plague Marines
2 Melta
Champ
Power Fist
Rhino
7 Plague Marines
2 Melta
Champ
Power Fist
Rhino
7 Plague Marines
2 Melta
Champ
Power Fist
Rhino
2 Obliterators
Vindicator
Predator
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Only played a few times with it but fun to play and fluffy!
Wazdaka...you should look up the recent warptime faq raping. In a nutshell, instead of rerolling what you like, you choose to accept your roll, or reroll all the dice. Fluffy list, though personally I don't like magic number constraints (now that they don't do anything), and have never been impressed with power fists (or predators for that matter).
Yeah, I know about the FAQ, haven't actually played with this army since it came out so the powers might change.
I'm not sure how people get away without power fists. Once the (inevitable) close combat comes (because at some point you're probably going to get caught and charged by something) I want at least a chance of taking the harder hitters down. By that I'm thinking, termies, fnp marines etc. A unit of 7 plague marines on their own are just going to bounce.
The Predator is just a cheap(ish) tank that provides extra low strength shots for anti infantry, and provides another tank to shoot at (hopefully taking some focus off of the rhinos/vindicator.
The sacred number is a personal choice, but it feel better when I'm playing with 7 men squads. I do the same with my Nurgle Daemon army...
Prince
Nurgle
Wings
Wind (because warptine is not so good as it was be before faq)
Prince
Nurgle
Wings
Wind
6 Plague Marines
2 Melta
Champ
Power Fist
Rhino
6 Plague Marines
2 Melta
Champ
Power Fist
Rhino
6 Plague Marines
2 Melta
Champ
Power Fist
Rhino
Predator all-las
Predator all-las
Predator all-las
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