Refused veiwing of the new book

[thesheriff]

Just to start off with, this isnt a moan at GW, this is purley a thread to investigate whether this is a common occurance....

So I went into my local GW on saturday with the intention of looking at the new empire book. I always like to go and look at the new fantasy books, because it gives me a chance to discover what new units and combinations my friends might be using against me with there armies.

I walked over to the new release section with a friend of mine, and we picked up two books off the shelf. We started flicking through them - carefully i might add - new points costs and what some of the units did. Same as usuall for any new release, including all of the previous 8th ed. books.

I was then approached by a staff member that I have known for a long time, and asked what i was doing. I said that i was looking at what the new stuff did, expecting a cheerful conversation about how everything works and how I should go about combatting it with my armies (that he was well aware of).

Instead, he said, in a cheeful way: "Ok, you have about 5 seconds to put the book down".

Dazed, i thought that maybe he wanted me to use the open copy, as not to potentially damage it or drop it. So, i said "fine, is there an open copy you can look at??"

"No" he said.

I was tempted to ask anyone in the store to let me see any copy they had bought, but it was mostly full of begginers and I was still quiet annoyed, so i left. Which is a shame, I would have liked to have stayed and talked to a few people there

So, after my story, my quiestions;
*Are you allowed to look at a new book that you have not bought? Either an open copy or just one off the shelf.
*If not, how long have you not been allowed to?

I think I'll put a poll in too, to see what you think...

thesheriff

[xxRavenxx]

The problem is how damaged books get, and how quickly.

Boyes is a great example of it locally. They don't keep an eye on their range, and ALL their books they bought in last year are in shreds, because people have thumbed through them, dropped them, put food on them, etc. Noone would buy them now.

[Bigbot]

We always look through a store copy and then my wife tells me to get one from the back.

[Caiphas Cain]

I'm allowed to use the books in the GW I go to occasionally. I've known the manager for close to four years though, and he knows I'm careful. He even lets me use store armies if I want. I haven't been there in a few months though now, perhaps there's a new policy.

[sigur]

I hardly ever did that but I never was told to put the book down or anything. That's weird.

[Tarliyn]

Never encountered that myself. Can see some reasons for and against. Seems kinda extreme though. I run a chain retail store and one of the things we talk about with marketting is touch points. If a customer is able to touch a product and hold it they are more likely to want it and therefore buy it. I thought that was pretty simple marketing though. Sometimes i honestly feel bad for GW. So many of their policies are just backwards from the way the rest of the retail world is heading and they don't even realize it. They need to go and spend the money and hire a marketing person who has previously worked for a big company. The company I work for seems to go after people from Victoria Secret and our products are nothing alike, lol. (atleast 1 marketing, 1 dm, and 1 loss pervention person I am aware of so far lol) My company is all the better for it and like I said our products are nothing alike.

On a store level you wanna hire people who are passionate about your product and who are smart. On a game and model design level you want the same. But for corporate level jobs you want smart and experienced people, which requires money. To bad they are short sighted on it : /

Sorry went way OT


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[Yodhrin]

Never encountered that myself. Can see some reasons for and against. Seems kinda extreme though. I run a chain retail store and one of the things we talk about with marketting is touch points. If a customer is able to touch a product and hold it they are more likely to want it and therefore buy it. I thought that was pretty simple marketing though. Sometimes i honestly feel bad for GW. So many of their policies are just backwards from the way the rest of the retail world is heading and they don't even realize it. They need to go and spend the money and hire a marketing person who has previously worked for a big company. The company I work for seems to go after people from Victoria Secret and our products are nothing alike, lol. (atleast 1 marketing, 1 dm, and 1 loss pervention person I am aware of so far lol) My company is all the better for it and like I said our products are nothing alike.

On a store level you wanna hire people who are passionate about your product and who are smart. On a game and model design level you want the same. But for corporate level jobs you want smart and experienced people, which requires money. To bad they are short sighted on it : /

Sorry went way OT


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If GW go a different way from the rest of the retail sector in the UK, I'm struggling to see how that's a bad thing, alas I've seen quite the opposite, with the staff being required to parrot mindless marketing gobbledegook at every customer in the queue and clamping down on any activity which isn't approved by HQ.

And don't say those two words again, the most heinous words in the English language; loss prevention Bunch of Little Pinochets and Napoleons the lot of them, the sort of people who gleefully embraced the Spanish Inquisition. I have never had an encounter with them that didn't make me nauseated.

As for the OP, it's not happened to me yet, but I've not tried recently at my local store. It's actually quite sad the way HQ treats the staff these days with releases; used to be they'd get at least a month's notice and a load of stuff to show off prior to each one to help sell, used to enjoy going in a few days before release and reading through the new 'dexes or checking out the staff painting projects; I went in to my local today and they said they'd only found out Empire were getting redone at last Saturday's staff briefing(they apparently toe the company line regarding online rumours and don't bother looking at sites like this, or so they claimed).

EDIT: As to the topic of damages; that shouldn't be an issue, every retailer with stock on shelves understands that a certain percentage of stock is going to be lost to browsing damage, accidental damage, and shoplifting. If you're running a store with stock on shelves and you aren't doing so, that's a failure on your part; customers browse, it's an accepted paradigm, so if you don't want them browsing, don't make the stock available; shrinkwrap the books, put them in an acrylic-fronted case, become Argos, whatever you like, but if you put stuff on shelves, especially stuff expensive enough that it isn't an impulse buy to most people, you should be expecting people to check the product out.

[thesheriff]

Oh I forgot to mention. The guy who came up to me and told me to put it down asked me "am i thinking of gettig the book". Two thoughts went through my mind;

A) Lie - and say "I was considering getting it, i just want to have a look first". To which his response would be; "Your not going to get it are you"
B) Tell the truth - say "no, im probably not going to get it, but id like to have a look at a few cahnges"

I chose the latter option, because being honest is probably the best bet. And the guy knows me, and I dont have an empire army and its unlikley Id buy one there (although, I did say I was tenpted to buy one once I had the money) , so it would just be a straight lie to a person I would think of as a friend.

So, when he said "are you going to get one?" I said; "Nah, just gonna have a look for now. But I might do an Empire army when its my birthday in june, if ive got enough that is"

Ive said this before, when the ogres came out I took a copy off the shelf and perused, and when asked if I was going to get an ogre army I said no. And they were fine with me looking at it and just seeing what was new.

As Sigur said, it just seems really weird...

Anouther thing is, it wasnt like I was trying to write a list from it, i was just having a look. I woudln't get told to put it down if I went into Waterstones or any other place that specialises in books to any degree.

thesheriff

[Dylius]

Personally I think that you should always ask first, to avoid any problems.

Maybe they did it because they had a policy of "if you want to read it, then you have to buy it".

[marv335]

Most of the FLGS I've been to shrink wrap all the books to prevent this.
If you want to read it, you have to buy it.
I can see their point, it's a shop, not a library.

[thesheriff]

Most of the FLGS I've been to shrink wrap all the books to prevent this.
If you want to read it, you have to buy it.
I can see their point, it's a shop, not a library.

The concept that your stating, ie; "Its not a library" is fine. But, it is like an overnight change, and its very strange IMO.

[6mmhero]

It does seem a little strange, but then it depends how long you were looking at it etc. On a release day it is expected that people will pick up the new book to flick through etc. How many copies were left on the shelf bar the two that you and your friend were looking at?

On a similar note a lot of comic shops have signs to stop people standing and readin the comic/book cover to cover.
I think if you were just browsing the book then this is strange, however if you were there for a while and reading the rules cover to cover then perhaps it is not so strange (especially if you do this for every fantasy book). Not saying anyone is in the wrong but would have thought the staff member would have viewed it as a promotional opportunity.

[Freakiq]

Just picking a random book off a shelf and reading it is poor form but so is not having a store copy.

I still think OP should have asked first though.

Still, one more reason to not feel bad when you download the scanned version.

[thesheriff]

It does seem a little strange, but then it depends how long you were looking at it etc. On a release day it is expected that people will pick up the new book to flick through etc. How many copies were left on the shelf bar the two that you and your friend were looking at?

I picked it up, maganged to flick to the special section to see how much Demi-gryph knights costed, then got asked to put it down. It was literally seconds...

Just picking a random book off a shelf and reading it is poor form but so is not having a store copy.

I still think OP should have asked first though.

Still, one more reason to not feel bad when you download the scanned version.

I do usually agree. The store was running a 24hr open event before easetr sunday, and they were crazy busy. The manager was running an intro game, one staff-member was serving a que of people 3-4 big and i couldnt even see the last staff memeber. So, i just started flicking through carfully

Your right, it wasnt the best form. And it was one of teh reasosn I possibly thought he asked me to put it down. But again, ive done it before, so i am just bemused at the sudden change.

One of the main aims of this thread was to establish whether anyone else in my position ahd experianced this "overnight change". If most peopel experiances had been one minute, look at books at your discression (within reason) and teh next it had been "No touchy!" then it coudl indicate a policy change. However, im thinking this is more of a staff memeber, or possibly manager instututed policy.

[Max Jet]

Just picking a random book off a shelf and reading it is poor form

Why?

Don't know about the area the OP comes from, but where I live you can pick any book you want from

a) any book store (of which there are 10)
b) any specialised book store keeping scripts and things like that for university
c) even the Games Workshop and hobby stores.

I grew up 20 years with the freedom to go to any place I want and take a look at anything I could be interested in.

Somehow people in my area must belong to the very rare breed of civilized people who know how to handle a book they don't own?

For example, I once had a friend who was looking through a codex and accidentally tore one of teh pages. In response, instead of simple placing the book in the back, he walked up to the staff member, explained what had happened, and bought it. No issue was made, and I think this attitude is completly fair.

Very well done by your friend, very poorly done by the staff. There is something called insurance, this is why I never had to pay something I broke in the supermarket despite insisting on it. I learned about it during a part time job.

[Hellebore]

Very well done by your friend, very poorly done by the staff. There is something called insurance, this is why I never had to pay something I broke in the supermarket despite insisting on it. I learned about it during a part time job.

I don't know how it works in other countries but in Australia we have an excess charge that you have to pay on insurance claims. So car insurance might have a $500 excess charge. It basically means you only use insurance on extremely expensive damage, not minor damage (which is probably why the insurance companies use this, to prevent excessive claims).

So in Australia at least there's no way they'd claim insurance on that one item. I suppose they could collect all their damaged goods together and make a single claim, but that would have to be a pretty hefty amount and might not be a guaranteed thing. Too many claims generally results in higher premiums too. Insurance is basically a preemptive paid reminder - you give them money and then try really hard never to actually get it back. The consequences of doing so simply increase the money you pay.

Hellebore

[Spectrar Ghost]

The shop may not be a library, but if I'm unsure whether to get a book, especially a rulebook, I like to be able to look through it. If I can't, I won't buy it. It's that simple. Policies like this result in lost sales.

I understand that damage is a worry, but either take the chance and make sure the customer treats the store's property with respect, or have a store use copy. Especially for GW stores they need to take a hit for probably $10-$15 bucks for the cost every couple months, and a $30 or so hit every couple years for the core books. It's chump change for the goodwill it generates. You can whip it out to help customers select a new army, use it in the Academies (do they still do those?), and have it available for the staff to peruse to build expertise. It's a no-brainer.

[Lord Inquisitor]

Firstly I think it's bonkers that GW don't provide at least rules sections of army books and codecies online. Amongst other benefits for the company it would allow shop staff to give the website address and send their game-store groupies home to read up on the new book at their leisure and think about starting an empire army.

However, I think all GWs and the vast majority of independents have open copies for this precise reason. Buying all the books costs what, $500 or so? Absurd to expect casual or even tournament gamers to buy every book and players are much more likely to be satisfied with the game and/or start a new army if they can actually read the rules, look at the pictures, etc.

But still, the shop is under no obligation to provide open copies, nor should they allow you to paw the merchandise particularly when you have no intention of buying it. I may not consider it a good long term business plan for GW to not extend this courtesy but a courtesy it remains.

[Dezartfox]

Our store had a problem that none of the beginner were buying the books, and just using the shelf ones, this caused issues with missing stock and damages. Now we make sure the beginners have the books, or else they can't play. Also we took all the books off the shelf and put a store/open copy that people can thumb through, but not use for a game.

[Scammel]

Firstly I think it's bonkers that GW don't provide at least rules sections of army books and codecies online.

They do in a sense, you can get the statlines for most units on the website. Enough to know what the unit broadly does, but still forcing you to get the book.