Refused veiwing of the new book

[burad]

If GW doesn;t want you to be able to take a peek, they really ought to shrink wrap the books. That's how some of the magazine industry does it to keep browsers from damaging the merchandise.

[Dyrnwyn]

The store is private property, you dont have a right to pick up a book and look through it, thats why you should learn some manners and ask first. A complaint? How is that out of order? It is the stores property and he did not ask permission. Some places are ok with this, others are not. You need to ask first before you go rifling through stuff, it really is common decency.

As has been noted, perusing unsecured merchandise is part of shopping - I inspect fruit and vegetables before buying them. I leaf through books, both new and used before buying them. If the merchandise isn't secured - in a sealed container of some sort or behind the counter with a dummy copy on display, then I expect to be able to inspect it. Granted - the issue of potential damages is valid, but if the store is that concerned, then it should secure the codecies in magazine bags, or keep them behind the counter. On top of that even if said in a cheerful manner, 'you have about 5 seconds to put those back' is needlessly confrontational and rude. 'I'm going to have to ask you to put those back on the shelf or purchase them as we're not a library' would have worked just fine.

When we get new books in at the FLGS, the store usually puts one out right in front of the register for all the grognards to peruse and inspect. I don't know if this is something that is eventually sold later or if the store eats the cost, but it works fairly well at getting people gathered around a single copy and talking about the new rules as a community. If someone wants a look while others are looking, he can either wait his turn... or buy his own copy. Also, these books are not available for folks to build army lists out of, and as they're right next to the till, nobody is taking pictures via camera phone or notes out of it.

Yeah, reading books in store with no intention of buying them is exploitative of the system, and dodgy. While the store has a right to prevent this behavior, there are usually better ways to do it than issuing ultimatums to browsing patrons.

[Coasty]

Yeah, reading books in store with no intention of buying them is exploitative of the system, and dodgy. While the store has a right to prevent this behavior, there are usually better ways to do it than issuing ultimatums to browsing patrons.

With this kind of book I'd expect to be able to read before buying. It's a rulebook, not a novel, so I'd want to know if it was worth my money before I bought.

The shop assistant was being a berk and needs retraining in customer service.

[samiens]

To be fair, the shop assistant did know he wasn't going to buy
Sent from my 7 Mozart using Board Express

[ColShaw]

To be fair, the shop assistant did know he wasn't going to buy
Sent from my 7 Mozart using Board Express

Irrelevant. Good customer service is always polite and civil, at the very least.

[samiens]

I agree it could have been done better (although we have no real indication of tone here- my local GW manager and I joke around all the time so hecould easily say this to me) but that's another issue to whether its unreasonable to ask a guy who's admitted he's not going to buy to put a saleable product down (you could even argue that the op wasn't a customer)
Sent from my 7 Mozart using Board Express

[Casper Hawser]

Whenever Ive gone into the my local GW no one has stopped me looking at any of the books, they've even taken some of the IA shrink wrap off in the past just because I was considering buying one in the future I think it was the first part of the Badab war. There's two GW near me and they've always seemed to want to show me anything that might promote a new purchase.

[EmperorNorton]

that's another issue to whether its unreasonable to ask a guy who's admitted he's not going to buy to put a saleable product down

I wouldn't say that it's unreasonable per se, just not a particularly good idea.
What if the guy who thought he'd never buy the book suddenly decides differently after looking through it? That's hardly impossible.

[samiens]

I agree, to be honest there's been a lot of comments in this thread that suggest its an inalienable right to be able to read through books and frankly its not. Beyond that iys definitely better for the customer and open copie are a good thing!
Sent from my 7 Mozart using Board Express

[Coasty]

Be honest: would you shop in a bookshop that didn't let you have a leaf through to see if the book actually suited your needs first? I sure as hell wouldn't.

[samiens]

Depends on the type of book- as a tournament player I buy every codex anyway, so I often preorder it without having seen it- I buy from my local gw to do my bit to keep them open (its good for gaming etc).

For other books, I normally know something about what im buying before I go in- so again probably. Finally, GW is not a bookshop...
Sent from my 7 Mozart using Board Express

[Coasty]

Finally, GW is not a bookshop...

Yes it is, as well as being a toy shop.

So you never go into a bookshop and think 'oh, that book looks interesting, I wonder what's in it?' Weird.

As it happens, I also usually buy every codex but, after having a skim through, I decided the Grey Knights' one was one I could do without. If I hadn't looked I might have bought £20+ worth of bogroll.


Also, can't you remove that 'sent from my whateverthehell using nobodycares' from your posts somehow?

[samiens]

I didn't say I never look in books in a bookshop, but irs not a tight and i relatively often buy books without flicking through it. I really don't have anything more to add!

I don't think I can remove that message (it doesn't show up when writing posts). Does it matter?
Sent from my 7 Mozart using Board Express

[Damien 1427]

The shop assistant was being a berk and needs retraining in customer service.

Me being me, I'd have wanted words with his manager over that. Talking to someone like they're a small child or a dog is rude at the best of times, let alone a customer.

[Asp]

maybe gw should just stop charging £25 for rules. other companies can give their rules away for free and those rules are often better.

heck, according to several lawyers, UK and continental, rules for games are non-copyrigthable. in principle there's nothing to stop any of us from transcribing all the rules (not background) from the new empire codex and putting it up for free. then the stores wouldn't have to carry the heavy burden of long-time customers wanting to know how their game has changed either.

[samiens]

As a guy with a law degree im not at all convinced with that line of argument- I suspect you can and would get sued and, at least in the uk, you would lose.

[Mr Ogre]

The rules might not be copyrightable...but I'm pretty sure anything in print inherently is.

[samiens]

Indeed, lack of copyright doesn't mean lack of protection. Of course we would also need to debate what constitutes a rule- I think there would be a strong argument to suggest statlines aren't rules.

[Asp]

hmm it could be interesting to hear more about this. as i said, it is my understanding that rules and rules mechanics cannot be copyrighted, only the exact form a given booklet is written in

[Damien 1427]

As I understand it, I could publish a game that is exactly the same as, say, Warhammer 40,000 mechanically, but I cannot use the same terms for the rules. It's pretty common in the P&P RPG market, but I doubt Games Workshop would take too kindly to me doing that. Wizards of the Coast aren't too fussed if there are a hundred thousand knockoffs of AD&D out there, since they make their money from the current editions. If you did the same for 4th Edition (Or, soon, 5th Edition) they'd probably want to have words with you.

So, in the end, yes, you could publish the rules. Assuming you renamed everything (Including the stats, the units, the special rules, how the special rules work...) and didn't copy their layout, yes, you could. But since you've just taken someone's intellectual property and rejiggled it slightly, GW would still come after you in the same way they go after people who put scans of the rulebooks up. And in any case you're going to a lot of effort for something that most people would see as a rather overly-elaborate way of getting around copyright. It'd be quicker and easier just to find and download scans of the Empire army book, and you'd at least be honest and open about ripping off people and stealing the bread from the mouths of hard-working writers and designers.