£25 for rules for miniatures that are already exceedingly expensive..... who's ripping whom off?
No, never, you touch it, you buy it.
Yes, if its the store open copy
Yes, as long as you are careful, you ask and you put it on back the shelf
I like polls
£25 for rules for miniatures that are already exceedingly expensive..... who's ripping whom off?
One is the RRP of a luxury product. You won't drop dead from lack of the latest WHFB supplement.Originally Posted by Asp
£25 for rules for miniatures that are already exceedingly expensive..... who's ripping whom off?
The other is theft of intellectual property.
If you don't like the RRP, buy it from a third-party retailer. Or just refuse to buy it if you feel that strongly about it. But this is veering rapidly off-topic into the realms of pricing (Which has an existing discussion) or piracy (Which I think is outright forbidden).
The Collect Call of the CthulhuI will keep this in mind in case I ever want to be a Necron bride.
Damien 1427's Broad Collection of Tat - My attempt at actually painting things.
Don't like the price. Go without.
Or is it now socially acceptable to simply steal whatever you can't afford?
i dont condone piracy, it was you who brought that up.
but i think its cheesey to make every book a hard cover version that costs so much when some people just want the rules.
And some people (probably most) want more than just rules. They want artwork, background, illustrations, short stories..dare I say it, inspiration...
Hardcover is not something done just to make more profit. It's a superior format to softback. Book stays open when laid flat. The binding itself is hard and longer wearing (quite the grumble when dodgy glue is applied to a softback!). And don't forget the books are now full colour. That's greater expense right there, in terms of production costs.
For the most part, yes it is. And not just for GW, but for just about every publisher. At least other publishers usually release a softcover edition later on for those who are interested more in the content than the packaging.
And of course it is perfectly possible to make a softcover with good binding, it's just that GW did not bother; trying to justify the higher price of the new hardback armybooks with the poor quality of the previous softbacks really gets my goat.
Of course a full-colour hardcover is nicer than a softcover with a few full-colour pages. Does that mean it is a good thing for every customer to only have that available at a considerably higher price? Absolutely not.
They could start gold plating the spine and adorning it with sapphires. That's a greater expense right there, in terms of production costs. Does that make it a good idea?
EmperorNorton's Overabundance of Projects Log
2012
Minis bought: 363 - - - - - Minis painted: 373
2013
Minis bought: 407 - - - - - Minis painted: 66
Do remember that Asp has a long history now of insisting that GW don't have legal claim to their rules. Something derived from his desire to publish "coreheim", but unfortunately very unfounded in terms of legal basis. We've had this argument of ownership about a dozen times on his behalf I believe.
Moving swiftly on though, Re: Hardbacks. I like them. I'm willing to pay the extra couple of quid for them. So yay for me! Sad times for those who'd like a cheaper paperback though.
For your good self it may only be a "couple of quid", shop discount etc, etc, but for the rest of us it's £5 - and when did the soft covers go up to £20?!?, they were £10 around the begining of 6th weren't they?
Last edited by shelfunit.; 16-04-2012 at 05:55.
Member of J.A.D.E.DTrying to convince Warseer that GW are anything less than perfect is like trying to teach a horde of zombies that lettuce is a perfectly acceptable alternative to brains.
Lest we forget
Fine, £5.I'd still pay it. My uni textbooks were nearly the £100 mark, paperback, and much less fun
As were mine, but they are totally irrelevent to the price of an army book, so why bring them up?Fine, £5.
Member of J.A.D.E.DTrying to convince Warseer that GW are anything less than perfect is like trying to teach a horde of zombies that lettuce is a perfectly acceptable alternative to brains.
Lest we forget
Lol seven pages in and still going.
I like the new hard backs, yes they are more but I get a lot of use out of them so the cost is spread over a good period of time etc.
It is not just GW going down the hardback route, even in the historical gaming sector more and more sets of rules are going hardback or having premium editions published.
It is good to see ASP still flogging a deadhorse.
well the simple gist of the matter is that forcing everyone to pay £25 for the book, even when some people just want the rules, is plainly a scumbag move
I didn't read through all the comments here...but a good deal of them. I can definently see where GW staff is coming from in this case. I am not 100% sure of the cirvumstances, but I must admit that a lot of people that go into GW do not buy anything, but they will thumb through books and hang out. Hanging out is all well and good, but when you pick something up with no intent to buy somehting and damage it then I can see wher ethey are coming from. Odds are that if you were a regualr who spent money they wouldnt have asked you to put it down. A lot of people do not want to acknowledge that our hobby is a business at the same time. If you are a spender and not the type that just lingers...I'd say that you may have just caught the staff at a bad time...maybe in a mood or something. I would just ask what the deal is next time I stop in.
Lol that is the best comment I have ever reada on here, thank you for making my day
It is good to see you have a sense of humor ASP!
Sorry to be semi-troll skip, but care to explain exactly why offering your product in a format that a minority might not prefer is a scumbag move?
Can't speak for anyone else, but personally I view Armybooks as gaming aids. If I had a choice between a softcover and a hardcover gaming book, I'd go with softcover every time. Hardcovers add 1/4" of thickness, probably 4-6oz of weight each at a minimum, and cost more. Hardcovers are books I read at home, not books that I plan on taking with me to the gaming store. Why wouldn't someone be upset at being forced to pay more for a book that is less suitable for the task it will do?
SG
Epic: Armageddon
Are you a soldier, or are you a general?
If GW were really confident that people prefer their hardcover books, they could make a cheap softcover B&W version available also, for half the price, and see which one people bought more of.
...hmm, I think I know how that would come out...
"Ember of Dreams"
http://www.amazon.com/Ember-Dreams-C...0408773&sr=1-1
I agree with Asp to some degree, at least as far as it being foolish for GW to price their books so highly, or at least without a cheaper or free alternative. (Before I start, please excuse the big pink rant). What's my rationale? Firstly GW sell miniatures. They are not a publishing company, the don't make most of their money from books (like White Wolf) or have to deal with players having access to cheaper equivalent models (Battlefront). Their biggest profit margin comes from miniatures. If I have a set amount I spend each month on miniatures (which I do, for the most part), then if I spend my budget on army books instead of models, GW are actually making less money. The assumption that I will buy the rulebooks spending money in addition to miniatures is false, at least, beyond my first army.
Despite GW apparently hating online discussion of their products, there is always a big buzz online when a new book comes out. Surely, GW wants every geek online to look at the New Shiny Army, gaze at the wonderful new artwork, read all the cool rules and magic items and say "By Jove I'm going to start a New Shiny Army Army!" I know I can't help it every time I read a codex or army book even when I have zero interest in the race. In one case I bought an entire Sisters of Battle army that never even got assembled let alone played with (okay, I was staff with leadweight discount at the time so it wasn't quite as mental, but the point is that I made a crazy spur of the moment army purchase decision based on the new shiny witchhunters book and there are lots of gamers out there with WAY more disposable income than me.)
When a new book comes out, release the rules and the colour sections (hmm, I guess they're all colour now but you know what I mean) and the army list online as a PDF. Everything but the background, basically. How many geeks just reached out and read the army book? How many have got an evil little voice telling them to start a new army, who would have just ignored it if the rules weren't for free (or, for that matter, if they were told by a staff member to stop reading the army book...).
Putting army books/codecies online for free has many advantages. Frankly, anyone who doesn't want to buy your books can get the books online as crappy quality PDFs already, typically with the models sections removed. Surely, you want all these people to have good-quality shiny PDFs and be inspired by shiny pictures? These aren't your enemies, these are potential customers who will buy large amounts of plastic crack off you if they do decide to start this army. Anyone who currently buys the books probably knows that they could get PDFs online for free as it is. I know I'd want to have a physical book. The only time I might not want to buy a physical book and just print off the PDFs would be if I want to spend every disposable penny I have on models for the new army and get the book later. Again, more profit, quicker for GW! If I then drop the hobby or take a break, GW have made more money from me. If I do get around to buying the book, that's still a win for GW.
Other advantages! Store staff can point customers to the website, maybe on a card, and not have them pawing the merchandise! Errata can be edited directly into the online PDFs! Competitive players can read every book and have much more transparency to competitions and more satisfaction with the game. New players can read every book and learn what they might be up against. Players can point out crazy army lists for that army they don't have the book for (again, which might lead to actually starting that army). Players can play without lugging their books if they don't want to (or have forgotten), just a laptop or ipad would do.
I don't understand how putting every army book online wouldn't be a win for GW in every way. The potential for loss is low (people might buy less books, but most people will still buy the books they use, the fluffbunnies will still buy them, and those that do print them out will probably spend the same amount on models). The potential for gain is high (one person buying a new army is worth dozens of book purchases) and it would make a big chunk of their playerbase very happy and really make GW seem less like the Big Moneygrabbing Corporation.
Last edited by Lord Inquisitor; 16-04-2012 at 19:37.
... and then I won.
For me, whilst I like the fluff in the books, if it came to a choice of a hardcover with lots of fluff or a cheaper fluff free paperback, I'd take the cheaper paperback's every time. Whilst I like the fluff, I don't actually need it to use the army, there's plenty of fluff available out there anyway to guide army selections if they want to follow a fluff-based theme.
As to the topic itself, I can see why it's good to be able to leaf through a book before purchasing, but at the same time, if anyone damages one of my books through mis-handling or carelessness I'm mighty annoyed because as far as I'm concerned, anyone else property (but especially books) should be handled with great care. Most of my codices look as good as the day they left the printer's because I look after them.
I have a long mental list of friends to whom I won't lend books as I know they won't care for them to my levels of expectation.
Lord Inquisitor- interesting idea but one with a fatal flaw. Take the vet with thousands of points of an army who has so many bits they can convert most new stuff. Its quite possible that I (oops I mean hypothetical they!) won't buy anything but the book- which im basically guaranteed to buy because of my large collection. Even should I not like the new stuff, ill get the book just so I can keep playing pick up games etc.
Put the rules on the net and they don't get my book money...
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Mauler, Mauler, Mauler, Maulerfiends!
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