View Poll Results: Can you look at new book in store without buying it?

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  • No, never, you touch it, you buy it.

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Thread: Refused veiwing of the new book

  1. #181

    Re: Refused veiwing of the new book

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Inquisitor View Post
    Does anyone know what publisher GW uses these days or what the cost to GW per book would actually be?

    I cannot comment on their current practice, but they used to have the books assembled overseas, and bound in the uk.

    Reasons were twofold: 1. The spine doesnt melt in a hot container like Battlefronts books often suffer from. 2. It avoided some sort of import tax due to not being a finished product.

    I have absoloutely no idea if this is still the norm, I'm pretty sure they moved the contract away from the company who used to do it.

  2. #182
    Commander eron12's Avatar
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    Re: Refused veiwing of the new book

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiney Norman View Post
    Ummm, I think I see where this incoming from, but supposing GW did post the rules on line for free, if they're not charging for the rule books they have no way of directly recouping the costs incurred by paying people to write the rules, play test them, design the artwork etc, so instead that is going to have to come out of their profit margin for the cheaper to produce models (if that is even true).

    Besides, from what I've been told GWs product with the biggest profit margin is their paint range.
    Leaving aside how much of an army book's art, rules, and fluff are several books old, and presumably the authors have been compensated, I would think GW would still make more than enough from people who choose to buy the book, even if the rules portion is offered free.

  3. #183
    Chapter Master Damien 1427's Avatar
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    Re: Refused veiwing of the new book

    Quote Originally Posted by xxRavenxx View Post
    I cannot comment on their current practice, but they used to have the books assembled overseas, and bound in the uk.
    They're printed in China these days. I don't know if they're bound in the UK, but it'd make sense if it was an import tax trick.
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  4. #184
    Chapter Master Lord Inquisitor's Avatar
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    Re: Refused veiwing of the new book

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiney Norman View Post
    Ummm, I think I see where this incoming from, but supposing GW did post the rules on line for free, if they're not charging for the rule books they have no way of directly recouping the costs incurred by paying people to write the rules, play test them, design the artwork etc, so instead that is going to have to come out of their profit margin for the cheaper to produce models (if that is even true).
    LOL I don't think you quite understand the point. If, supposing GW put their rules online for free, I buy a boxed set rather than a rulebook of the same price that I wouldn't otherwise buy, GW are recouping the cost of making the book from model sales. It's not like the profits from the books alone go to paying for the design team.

    Again, if I buy models instead of books, spend the same amount and GW makes a better profit margin on models, GW makes MORE MONEY. More money is more money. How are they losing out on the costs incurred by making the books and selling them, if making the books and putting them online for free makes more money for the company?


    Besides, from what I've been told GWs product with the biggest profit margin is their paint range.
    I'd be surprised, again because paints are made by other companies whereas GW make their own models. I know that the paints are some of their best selling products so possibly highest revenue producing but biggest profit margin seems unlikely.

    Quote Originally Posted by yabbadabba View Post
    While I understand what you are saying, releasing a book was a big money spinner, although I am not so sure these days. I think GW has got to a position where the books are at such a price that it becomes an choice rather than a compulsory buy.
    What's the choice? Buy book or borrow/photocopy/download pdf?

    As the key time for any sales period is the first three months, and if the book sales data backs this up, it might be worth running a promotion over that time that effectively gives you a free book if you spend a certain amount on that new army - and we need to be realistic here. That way they get money of people like me who probably won't get anything for my army over the next 6 months, and they get more money more quickly from those who start or want to reinvest heavily. Then it is down to the customer to ensure they make the best of the offer.
    But most players like to have the book first and at least vaguely plan out their purchases within the context of the book. New players should start with the book.

  5. #185

    Re: Refused veiwing of the new book

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Inquisitor View Post
    What's the choice? Buy book or borrow/photocopy/download pdf?
    If you want to do things illegally thats up to you, but I think it is becoming a choice now, rather than an automatic sale.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Inquisitor View Post
    But most players like to have the book first and at least vaguely plan out their purchases within the context of the book. New players should start with the book.
    And? there is nothing wrong with that and it doesn't fit outside of my suggestion at all. It might mean that some players might have to develop some patience, but that's not a bad thing.
    Free your hobby! Be creative and stop slavishly following the damn Book.
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    Anyone calling the LotR system's balance inferior to the other 2 core games' is just spouting absolute rubbish and clearly doesn't know what they are talking about.
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  6. #186
    Chapter Master TheDarkDuke's Avatar
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    Re: Refused veiwing of the new book

    Obviously our bias, you are changing and adding to the original post However for starters you and a friend enter and grab not one but 2 copies? My assumption is you walked directly to them as well grabbing two copies and start flipping through them with clearly no intention of purchasing which you even told them. The only thing I see as in appropriate is the way you were told to stop. Other then that I personally would say you are in the wrong. Ask question see if its ok at the least for starters. Lastly you complain that you left of your own free will but wanted to stay and talk to people... so your upset at your decision?

  7. #187

    Re: Refused veiwing of the new book

    One of my local stores has started bagging all their books and taping them up. It's really stupid because a lot of the content in those books is full color adds for the armies themselves. Being able to look through the books helps encourage beginners to start the hobby, and goes a long way to convincing players that they might like a new army. GW sells an interactive hobby, and to take the interaction out of the first and most important phase of the hobby (the initial courtship of the armies if you will) is sheer stupidity.

  8. #188

    Re: Refused veiwing of the new book

    Quote Originally Posted by UberBeast View Post
    One of my local stores has started bagging all their books and taping them up. It's really stupid because a lot of the content in those books is full color adds for the armies themselves. Being able to look through the books helps encourage beginners to start the hobby, and goes a long way to convincing players that they might like a new army. GW sells an interactive hobby, and to take the interaction out of the first and most important phase of the hobby (the initial courtship of the armies if you will) is sheer stupidity.
    An open copy of WD is free to the local store, an open copy of the book is not. Why not replace the book with WD (which, after all, is just an advert anyway) and keep those costs down?
    Free your hobby! Be creative and stop slavishly following the damn Book.
    Quote Originally Posted by Osbad View Post
    Anyone calling the LotR system's balance inferior to the other 2 core games' is just spouting absolute rubbish and clearly doesn't know what they are talking about.
    RIP Brimstone.
    I used to read the GW Other Forum, but I am much happier now.

  9. #189
    Chapter Master EmperorNorton's Avatar
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    Re: Refused veiwing of the new book

    Quote Originally Posted by yabbadabba View Post
    An open copy of WD is free to the local store, an open copy of the book is not. Why not replace the book with WD (which, after all, is just an advert anyway) and keep those costs down?
    Because the flavour of the month featured in WD is not to everyone's taste.
    The books show more options which will appeal to more people.
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  10. #190

    Re: Refused veiwing of the new book

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorNorton View Post
    Because the flavour of the month featured in WD is not to everyone's taste.
    The books show more options which will appeal to more people.
    And I am fairly sure if supermarkets had more samples for people to try they would buy more food. This was the key quote
    content in those books is full color adds for the armies themselves
    now WD is full of colour pictures, so again with no sales data, with only anecdotal evidence from a narrow viewed fan site, for the salesman a free magazine is going to be as effective as a 13.70(ish) book.
    Free your hobby! Be creative and stop slavishly following the damn Book.
    Quote Originally Posted by Osbad View Post
    Anyone calling the LotR system's balance inferior to the other 2 core games' is just spouting absolute rubbish and clearly doesn't know what they are talking about.
    RIP Brimstone.
    I used to read the GW Other Forum, but I am much happier now.

  11. #191
    Chapter Master Spider-pope's Avatar
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    Re: Refused veiwing of the new book

    Quote Originally Posted by UberBeast View Post
    One of my local stores has started bagging all their books and taping them up. It's really stupid because a lot of the content in those books is full color adds for the armies themselves. Being able to look through the books helps encourage beginners to start the hobby, and goes a long way to convincing players that they might like a new army. GW sells an interactive hobby, and to take the interaction out of the first and most important phase of the hobby (the initial courtship of the armies if you will) is sheer stupidity.
    And chances are they are doing so because grubby fingered people are leaving grease stains all over the pages, bending the corners and damaging the spine. Stores aren't stopping people from leafing through their stock just for the lulz or to be spiteful. Its to cut damage to stock to a bare minimum. It is not stupidity to cut wasteful costs in a terrible economic environment.
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  12. #192
    Chapter Master EmperorNorton's Avatar
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    Re: Refused veiwing of the new book

    Quote Originally Posted by yabbadabba View Post
    This was the key quote now WD is full of colour pictures, so again with no sales data, with only anecdotal evidence from a narrow viewed fan site, for the salesman a free magazine is going to be as effective as a 13.70(ish) book.
    I'd like to see the salesman who can use the April issue of White Dwarf as an effective tool to sell, say, an O&G or Imperial Guard army.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-pope View Post
    And chances are they are doing so because grubby fingered people are leaving grease stains all over the pages, bending the corners and damaging the spine. Stores aren't stopping people from leafing through their stock just for the lulz or to be spiteful. Its to cut damage to stock to a bare minimum. It is not stupidity to cut wasteful costs in a terrible economic environment.
    It is if cutting those costs results in lost revenue greater than the savings.
    Of course I have no proof that is the case, but I still find it telling that every bookstore not only allows its customers to flip through the books, but that it's actively encouraged in a lot of cases.
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  13. #193
    Chapter Master Spider-pope's Avatar
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    Re: Refused veiwing of the new book

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorNorton View Post
    I'd like to see the salesman who can use the April issue of White Dwarf as an effective tool to sell, say, an O&G or Imperial Guard army.


    It is if cutting those costs results in lost revenue greater than the savings.
    Of course I have no proof that is the case, but I still find it telling that every bookstore not only allows its customers to flip through the books, but that it's actively encouraged in a lot of cases.
    Bookstores are buying at wholesale, like the Black Library books (not bagged you notice), they are paying a fraction of the cost. GW rulebooks however cost more to produce, which is not discounted for the store. Both stores also attract different consumers and we are talking very different kinds of books here.

    A bookstores customers are largely adults, who are intending to buy and couldnt read through an entire novel in the time a store is open. GW on the other hand has largely child customers, who are not renowned for their cleanliness, and whose books can also be read in one sitting.

    GW clearly thinks that the costs outweigh the revenues in certain stores, and where i have encountered the shrinkwrapping in indie stores the reason given was always to avoid damage to their stock - that they cannot afford to replace willy nilly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor Shego View Post
    Killing his captain is meh. Killing his Primarch? Hell, that goes on a resume
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  14. #194

    Re: Refused veiwing of the new book

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorNorton View Post
    I'd like to see the salesman who can use the April issue of White Dwarf as an effective tool to sell, say, an O&G or Imperial Guard army.
    You are obviously just being obtuse.
    Free your hobby! Be creative and stop slavishly following the damn Book.
    Quote Originally Posted by Osbad View Post
    Anyone calling the LotR system's balance inferior to the other 2 core games' is just spouting absolute rubbish and clearly doesn't know what they are talking about.
    RIP Brimstone.
    I used to read the GW Other Forum, but I am much happier now.

  15. #195
    Chapter Master EmperorNorton's Avatar
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    Re: Refused veiwing of the new book

    Quote Originally Posted by yabbadabba View Post
    You are obviously just being obtuse.
    Then please, oh magnificent wise one, explain to me your infallible argument how the free issue of White Dwarf available to the store is as effective a sales tool as access to all the books when a customer comes in and expresses an interest in an army not featured in that month's issue of the magazine.
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  16. #196

    Re: Refused veiwing of the new book

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorNorton View Post
    Then please, oh magnificent wise one,
    Now why am I not surprised. should I tempt the Modhammer...
    explain to me your infallible argument how the free issue of White Dwarf available to the store is as effective a sales tool as access to all the books when a customer comes in and expresses an interest in an army not featured in that month's issue of the magazine.
    All the 8e WFB releases are recent, and GW usually keeps other backstocks of WD to hand. Just simply call a sales rep and ask. They are still on sale or return. You keep it as long as you need it before returning it. If you have a good rep with your sales rep you can get an even better deal on.

    If there isn't an issue free then you have to make a choice. Thankfully as it stands that choice is a lot cheaper in 40K than in WFB but that is bound to change when 6e comes out. Anyone running a FLGS or Book shop or even a GW needs to decide how to get the best out of the resources they have; I could easily have to change codexes 2-3 times a year not a problem when they were 4 but now they are 13.70ish?

    As it is most of my trade accounts either did not allow browsing, plastic-bagged the books or ended up with tatty old store copies. Some started to use WDs because it was easier and cheaper. Funnily enough with a polite and enthusiastic shop assistant it made no difference, and as they are in a sales conversation at that point, opening a book for the customer to look through is also an easy option if needed.

    Now I have taught you to suck eggs.
    Free your hobby! Be creative and stop slavishly following the damn Book.
    Quote Originally Posted by Osbad View Post
    Anyone calling the LotR system's balance inferior to the other 2 core games' is just spouting absolute rubbish and clearly doesn't know what they are talking about.
    RIP Brimstone.
    I used to read the GW Other Forum, but I am much happier now.

  17. #197
    Chapter Master loveless's Avatar
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    Re: Refused veiwing of the new book

    As much as I endorse and enjoy browsing books at the hobby shops (also, I rather loathe the hardcovers, given I was flipping through my 40K Codices to find the right pages and realized I couldn't get that same "flip power" with a hardback ), using them as a "picture-based" sales tool is a bit...silly.

    An army book/codex has a handful of extra color schemes per model and typically very similar angles. As far as, say, the Necrons were concerned, nearly all of those alternatives were shown in the White Dwarf. Given that White Dwarf catalogs are increasingly lackluster, I might instead point one to the GW website. Several images, often including 360 views and/or sprue pictures that can be blown up to a more-than-reasonable size for inspection. Of course, the "What's New" section often covers new models as well, or focuses on different armies and showcases several staff and gamer models.

    Rule-wise you need the codex/army book (or...you know...back when WD actually previewed rules). Picture-wise, the website can suffice - after all, don't we all tend to get excited by the pictures posted online (albeit often from WD)?
    ...and a little help comes in a little glass vial in a gun pressed against her anatomy...

    Things I'd love to do if I had limitless money: a new Salamanders army for 40K; a new Dark Elf army for Fantasy; an Emperor's Children force for HH *sigh*

  18. #198
    Commander frozenwastes's Avatar
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    Re: Refused veiwing of the new book

    Maybe I don't spend enough time in GW stores, but in any store that there are books being sold and they are out on the shelves, the customers should be able to open them and take a look. All the major book stores around here even have chairs to sit down and read at if you want. Because they know this increases sales.

    If I was in a store and looking at an army book that caught my eye and an employee came and told me to put it down, I'd first ask them to repeat themselves because I'd find it hard to believe I heard what they said correctly. It's just too stupid for belief.

    If they were serious, I would ask them once, "Are you asking me to stop looking at your products?" If they said anything other than yes or no, then I'd repeat the question. Then if they told me yes, I'd return the product to the shelf and leave immediately. If the clerk was in any way rude during our exchange, I'd call the parent company and tell them about it, including the individuals name.

  19. #199
    Chapter Master Spider-pope's Avatar
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    Re: Refused veiwing of the new book

    Quote Originally Posted by frozenwastes View Post
    Maybe I don't spend enough time in GW stores, but in any store that there are books being sold and they are out on the shelves, the customers should be able to open them and take a look. All the major book stores around here even have chairs to sit down and read at if you want. Because they know this increases sales.

    If I was in a store and looking at an army book that caught my eye and an employee came and told me to put it down, I'd first ask them to repeat themselves because I'd find it hard to believe I heard what they said correctly. It's just too stupid for belief.

    If they were serious, I would ask them once, "Are you asking me to stop looking at your products?" If they said anything other than yes or no, then I'd repeat the question. Then if they told me yes, I'd return the product to the shelf and leave immediately. If the clerk was in any way rude during our exchange, I'd call the parent company and tell them about it, including the individuals name.
    And the parent company would say to the poor sales assistant "That was a rather difficult individual. Next time try to be a bit politer when getting them to leave the store".

    You can look at the stock all you want. What you don't have is the right to fondle it.
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  20. #200
    Chapter Master Axeman1n's Avatar
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    Re: Refused veiwing of the new book

    What was the OP'ers buying habits in the store? Does he usually look through stuff and not buy it? I've never been told to not look at something. I buy stuff. I buy something nearly every time I walk into my FLGS. I have a copy of every 40k Codex, and I am thinking about buying a copy of each WFB codex too, but the cost is a bit prohibitive.
    This sounds like the kid that sits down at a restaurant and get's free bread, but never orders. Sometimes they ask you to leave, and you should leave. As to all of those book stores that have places to sit and read? If you haven't noticed, those places are all going out of business. WHen I go to the FLGS, on release day, I walk up to the shelf. Get the new book. I buy it. Then I find a place to look at it, though if it's crowded, that may be outside.

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