Refused veiwing of the new book

[Spectrar Ghost]

In so much as I decide how I spend my money, it is a right. While I agree, if the store likes - they can decide not to let me browse, however if they do not let me browse - I will not spend my money with them. Retailers need to understand that part of the relationship as well and then not wonder why it is that money goes elsewhere (either to online discounters or to other stores).

A right is something the store must let you do, usually from a legal perspective, but sometimes from a moral standpoint. Thus if it is legal and right (in the moral sense) that they can prohibit you from doing something, it is not a right. As I said in the two sentences after your quote, that doesn't mean it's not a good idea. We'll keep arguing this unless we stop conflating the two.

While you're handling the store's property, the staff have every right to place restrictions on how you handle that property. That statement has nothing to do with whether the restrictions (whatever they may be) affect the stores profitability or the chances of you making a purchase.

[Yodhrin]

So your logic is that as its not shrink wrapped its fair game? Sorry but there's no rules that say customers must be allowed to fondle everything that isn't wrapped.

Its subjective as to whether a policy that doesn't allow you to leaf through books prior to purchase is good or bad but it's a fact that GW have every right, in a single store or across them all, to determine whether you are allowed to or not- just as I've seen people in the magazine aisle in supermarkets etc who clearly are not going to make a purchase, asked to put them down.

I can understand not liking this policy but as a matter of principle the idea that you must be allowed to browse holds no water.
Sent from my 7 Mozart using Board Express

See, now you're using deliberately confusing two entirely separate circumstances which are not the same at all; a blanket "no browsing" policy is in no way the same thing as a staff member making an individual, situation judgement as to whether someone is just taking the piss and asking them to stop.

And yes, that is my logic, it's called social convention. Browsing through unsecured product is a convention associated with shopping, thus if you as a retailer choose to place unsecured product on your shop floor, you are accepting that people may act upon that convention. If you don't wish to abide by the commonly held terms of the convention in question, don't create the conditions in which such a convention exists; secure your stock.

As for it being cultural; rubbish, I'm a Brit, and I've spent countless hours reading chunks of books to evaluate them in book stores.

[de Selby]

Online discounters who will let you browse through the army book?

Online discounters who won't charge as much, because they don't provide the services of a FLGS like enabling the customer to view the merchandise in person.

I don't often go into a physical game store but when I do I expect to be able to browse or I can't see the point. So it's interesting to hear that it's now common to forbid the customers to check inside the army books (whether store copies or otherwise; how do you run a store with no store copy and a 'no opening the merchandise' policy?) as otherwise I wouldn't have known. This is different enough to the practice in most places I do my shopping that I'd expect some kind of sign notifying the customer, as otherwise it's going to lead to a lot of weird confrontations like the one in the OP.

TL; DR. Yet another reason to shop online and avoid wrangling actual game shop staff.

[eron12]

Maybe it is a culture thing. But im not disagreeing that's its better to be able to sample before you buy, just that its not a right and storesare entitled to stop people doing so if they please.
Sent from my 7 Mozart using Board Express

You are correct. Stores have a right to institute whatever policies they please, no matter how counter-productive to their purpose.

Of course I also have the right not to by from a store that treats me improperly.

Pretty simple to me.

They want my money. If they want it, they have to let me shop the way I want to shop. If they don't - they don't get my money.

Exactly. I think this is really all that needs to be said.

For those saying they wouldn't buy if not allowed to browse it should be noted that the OP straight up admitted that he wasn't going to buy it anyway and just wanted to read it.

I think most of us aren't just saying we wouldn't be the book (which, as you point out the OP wasn't going to do anyway) but avoid the store entirely. I know if I was treated so rudely by a store employee the store wouldn't get anymore of my money.

[Dervos]

Just to start off with, this isnt a moan at GW, this is purley a thread to investigate whether this is a common occurance....

So I went into my local GW on saturday with the intention of looking at the new empire book. I always like to go and look at the new fantasy books, because it gives me a chance to discover what new units and combinations my friends might be using against me with there armies.

I walked over to the new release section with a friend of mine, and we picked up two books off the shelf. We started flicking through them - carefully i might add - new points costs and what some of the units did. Same as usuall for any new release, including all of the previous 8th ed. books.

I was then approached by a staff member that I have known for a long time, and asked what i was doing. I said that i was looking at what the new stuff did, expecting a cheerful conversation about how everything works and how I should go about combatting it with my armies (that he was well aware of).

Instead, he said, in a cheeful way: "Ok, you have about 5 seconds to put the book down".

Dazed, i thought that maybe he wanted me to use the open copy, as not to potentially damage it or drop it. So, i said "fine, is there an open copy you can look at??"

"No" he said.

I was tempted to ask anyone in the store to let me see any copy they had bought, but it was mostly full of begginers and I was still quiet annoyed, so i left. Which is a shame, I would have liked to have stayed and talked to a few people there

So, after my story, my quiestions;
*Are you allowed to look at a new book that you have not bought? Either an open copy or just one off the shelf.
*If not, how long have you not been allowed to?

I think I'll put a poll in too, to see what you think...

thesheriff

That's really strange to me personally. You'd think they would have had a store copy to look through at least.

Maybe it was just a particular time or store in particular, there are two I regularly frequent, have not had this issue, and there are store copies to read through as well but nobody gives you a sideways glance for looking at the new ones either.

[loveless]

Online discounters who will let you browse through the army book?

If a brick and mortar store won't let me look at the book, why would I spend full price there when I can get it 20-25% off online? Neither store lets me look, so I might as well go with the cheaper option. Besides, if a store doesn't have a copy I can browse through, I have little reason to actually go into the store.

[samiens]

Yodhrin: fair enough but aside from some book shops I know plenty of places its considered rude in the UK to sit and read books or magazine on the shelves- so im not at all convinced its a social convention here. A quick glance maybe but I've seen people told to put down books countless times when they stand thee basically reading them with no obvious intention to buy.
Sent from my 7 Mozart using Board Express

[Ravenous]

Having worked for GW I kind of understand where they are coming from, the books fall to pieces quickly from all the cheeto infested neckbeards and the vile groin spawns that litter the store. Mind you most people are respectful of the books and will just take a quick peek and not effect the spine, then there is the special types that crack the sucker cover over cover and think its okay.

Then again I picked up a GW book and flicked through it intending to buy it, and was told its not a library, to which I responded "Guess Im buying this down the street".

So really its a two way street, respect the books, get respect people back, and dont let kids touch anything.

[Mastodon]

You cant look at this example in a vacuum, you need to see it in context of the day.

You've come in on release day with no intention of buying the book, picked one up off the shelf and started reading it. It doesnt matter that you've been careful, from the perspective of the shop you're taking their stock off the shelf without any intention of buying it.

Now how many other people do you think will have done exactly what you did that day? 5? 10? Probably more. From my experience any new release will have people just coming in to read the book to see what they've got to fear now, and if you let them they will read it cover to cover in excruciating detail.

The lack of a store copy on release day is not unknown either, some stores will get very few copies and taking one off sale is immediately one that cant go through the till.

I weigh up a store use copy on every release, depending on how many I've got and how many essentially pointless people I'll have hanging around on release day. Sometimes its better to have one copy just to stop them pawing at the new books, but that usually doesnt stop people just grabbing them off the shelf anyway. I do wish they were sealed like the new painting guides.

Ultimately you were very polite, and so was the staff member, but you have to understand the store will have had loads of people just opening the books for the sake of seeing whats in them, so to be asked to put it back on the shelf if you arent going to buy it is quite reasonable to me.

[Autumn Leaves]

Not only make a store copy available but punch a hole through the top left corner of the book and put a ring through it that is attached to a chain and the chain is fixed to the book shelf. People can come and read it, and fondle it but they can't take it away further than confortable standing height directly in front of the shelf. I've seen that done in a GW store and it worked really well.
Gamers couldn't take the store copy and leave it by the table so they can check it when they need to, so they need their own copies to bring to the game and the book doesn't go walkabout when interested customers come to have a look at it.

[simonr1978]

Ultimately you were very polite, and so was the staff member,

If things happened as the OP recounted I disagree. I would really not appreciate being spoken to like "You have about 5 seconds to put that back,". That is quite confrontational, rude and would have immediately got my back up. There are much better, more polite and more professional ways to ask a customer not to handle the merchandise.

[loveless]

You cant look at this example in a vacuum, you need to see it in context of the day.

You've come in on release day with no intention of buying the book, picked one up off the shelf and started reading it. It doesnt matter that you've been careful, from the perspective of the shop you're taking their stock off the shelf without any intention of buying it.

Now how many other people do you think will have done exactly what you did that day? 5? 10? Probably more. From my experience any new release will have people just coming in to read the book to see what they've got to fear now, and if you let them they will read it cover to cover in excruciating detail.

The lack of a store copy on release day is not unknown either, some stores will get very few copies and taking one off sale is immediately one that cant go through the till.

Meh? Eat the cost or keep the books behind the front counter so you can monitor people who look through them.
For every person who just wants to see what "the enemy" can do now, there's another person who's trying to decide if that army is the right choice for their next (or first) project.
The less information you can provide them firsthand, the easier it is for you to lose the sale to stores that offer the product cheaper.

Honestly, I wish GW would go back to the Black Boxes they used to do - copy of the book, a few sprues of models, all for the store and its customers to look at. Now that got me in the store and excited about a release - even ones I didn't want for myself.

I weigh up a store use copy on every release, depending on how many I've got and how many essentially pointless people I'll have hanging around on release day. Sometimes its better to have one copy just to stop them pawing at the new books, but that usually doesnt stop people just grabbing them off the shelf anyway. I do wish they were sealed like the new painting guides.

Surely if it bothers you that much you could just wrap the books yourself and tape/glue the bag shut.

Ultimately you were very polite, and so was the staff member, but you have to understand the store will have had loads of people just opening the books for the sake of seeing whats in them, so to be asked to put it back on the shelf if you arent going to buy it is quite reasonable to me.

Being told you have a few seconds to put a book down is never polite.
That sort of action is what sours customers to a particular store. Rude and/or grumbling staff members are the quickest way to push people into the arms of your competitors.

[Shimmergloom]

If they don't want you looking through the book then that's fine. But if they don't have a store copy and expect you to buy a book sight unseen, then they should expect lost sales. GW's products are far too expensive and their books are far too flimsy to expect someone to buy a book without making sure it won't fall apart upon first contact first.

And if they take that tone with you, after knowing you apparently for years, then they should expect even more lost sales. Cause at the very least I would stop spending any money at all in that store and would if possible even consider not going to that store at all.

[Mastodon]

Tone is something that can never be put across through text, and it sounds like the Staff member had known you and perhaps thought something like that wouldnt go over badly with you and was said in a kind of joking manner. It certainly doesnt seem to me to be 'You have 5 seconds to comply or you will be tasered' tone.

And I'd like to point out again that I have no problem with people having a look at the books if I think they're going to purchase one. Saying flat out that you arent getting the book would lead to me telling you to put it back on the shelf too. Its just as bad as people coming to 'look' at the new paints. Why they feel the need to open the pots and then get offended when I ask them if they're going to buy it I just dont understand.

[Rogue Star]

Ultimately you were very polite, and so was the staff member,

"Ok, you have about 5 seconds to put the book down," is a polite way of asking someone "Please don't browse army books, that can damage them. If you'd like to look through it, you could buy a copy, or look with a member of staff..." ...?

And if I had said to him "Or what...?", I'd be interesting to know where this polite conversation would have gone.

[Spiney Norman]

Just to start off with, this isnt a moan at GW, this is purley a thread to investigate whether this is a common occurance....

So I went into my local GW on saturday with the intention of looking at the new empire book. I always like to go and look at the new fantasy books, because it gives me a chance to discover what new units and combinations my friends might be using against me with there armies.

I walked over to the new release section with a friend of mine, and we picked up two books off the shelf. We started flicking through them - carefully i might add - new points costs and what some of the units did. Same as usuall for any new release, including all of the previous 8th ed. books.

I was then approached by a staff member that I have known for a long time, and asked what i was doing. I said that i was looking at what the new stuff did, expecting a cheerful conversation about how everything works and how I should go about combatting it with my armies (that he was well aware of).

Instead, he said, in a cheeful way: "Ok, you have about 5 seconds to put the book down".

Dazed, i thought that maybe he wanted me to use the open copy, as not to potentially damage it or drop it. So, i said "fine, is there an open copy you can look at??"

"No" he said.

I was tempted to ask anyone in the store to let me see any copy they had bought, but it was mostly full of begginers and I was still quiet annoyed, so i left. Which is a shame, I would have liked to have stayed and talked to a few people there

So, after my story, my quiestions;
*Are you allowed to look at a new book that you have not bought? Either an open copy or just one off the shelf.
*If not, how long have you not been allowed to?

I think I'll put a poll in too, to see what you think...

thesheriff

Quite apart from the rights/wrongs of allowing customers to browse books before they buy them, this guy was damn rude to you and I would have complained. Telling you "you have 5 seconds to put the book down" sounds like an angry teacher telling to a 5 year old.

I went to the GW store last Monday to get my copy and I did browse through the book before I bought it, along with an animated discussion with the manager about what had changed and the new models. Though I guess the situation was a little different, I know the manager pretty well, he knows I already have an Empire army so he knew I was going to buy the book anyway.

[2ndCompanyVeterans]

@spinynorman I think the big difference here is you engaged with the staff member which makes all the difference so thumbs up to you. A lot of people walk in like its their house and metaphorically put their feet up on the sofa and have a good read.

[spaghettyhoop]

My local GW is good with their policy on books and stuff. Infact reading stories on warseer over the past few years ive either got the best GW ever and its the exception to the rule, or people exaggerate events (or tell them a hell of a lot more one sided than they happened)

Anyway, mine has a single "store copy" of each book out, with a black triagle painted over one corner to distinguish it. They then keep all the copies for sale behind the counter. They let people look through these whenever they want, with the exception of playing games in the store. They wont let you use it as a reference for your army during a game, you are expected to bring your own copy, which is fair enough really.

They were also ace recently when i started fantasy. Let me spend quite a long time going through 3 different army books. I didnt even buy anything that day and they didnt mind, and one staff member chatted with me about skaven and goblins for ages. This may be because im a 28 year old adult male whos polite like, but still ive never seen them have a go at anyone unless they are been stupid. The good service is often rewarded too, I buy quite a lot in store even though I can get it online cheaper simply because of my experience in the store. I ended up spending £200 on the army book and a load of goblins the next day after I spent 30 mins reading the books.

My point is, in the few stores ive been in that are GW, all have had store copies, and ive never once been asked to put a book down.

[Spider-pope]

Chances are the store had recently had a visit from regional, who's had to deal with several damaged books being returned unsold and they've been told to crack down on it.

Personally i've never encountered this in a GW store. My sadly now closed LGS had to implement shrink wrapping thanks to several incidents involving greasy McDonalds fingers resulting in transparent pages, but thats about as close as i've gotten.

[Mastodon]

Having had a good read of this thread its quite interesting to see the differing opinions generated here. It seems theres a general theme from people that run their own store, people that have had their own business not related to wargaming and customers, with all the replies being along the same lines from each group.

I still think the OP got the short straw after the store had to deal with the 20+ grognards that rock up to every fantasy launch to monopolise all the books and have a good moan though.