Open Topped Transports

[Sqallum]

I was thinking, looking at raiders/venoms.... why can't the passengers be shot at???? I know you add 1+ to armour pen rolls...but surely, in real life, you shoot the people shooting at you rather than the pilot? I really think you should be able to target the passengers, but they receive cover saves as a balancing act. I can imagine DE warriors ducking behind the gantries, trading fire with SM tactical squads, with bullets bouncing off sails...and barriers
Sqallum

[TheDoctor]

Shhhhhh.... don't question the logic of GW.

But seriously, I also have to wonder about that- as well as penetrating hits not doing anything more than shaking the driver, when the troop compartment is like 60 percent of the vehicle?

I suppose it is to keep the game flowing faster, and have less stuff to keep track of.

[Radium]

Because armies like DE need a chance to get across the board as well. Without an option for non-open topped transports, getting shot out off what is already a very expensive paper airplane before you ever get a chance to make it across the table renders those armies unplayable.

[Lord Damocles]

Because then you have the associated problems of guys in paper-thin armour (Orks, Dark Eldar) getting shot out of their transports before they can do anything (hoho, Flamers!), or failing a morale check and exploding all over the place because they can't fall back.

[meltedwing]

Because if that were allowed then GW would have to give them "shield emitters" to protect the occupants.

[Rated_lexxx]

I think it's more for game balance then to make sense. I would be hard pressed to take a trukk over walking if my orks are getting killed before they get there

[Sqallum]

I suppose...but I think it is slightly stupid if say, a raider with DE inside starts shooting over the gantries at SM. Then the SM are like 'oh no, they are in a transport that has no cover or way of blocking them, but we will decide to shoot the unimportant vehicle, not the defenceless DE who have no cover or resistance against out bolter fire' Sigh...... I suppose you cannot have everything
Sqallum

[Rated_lexxx]

Like others have said in this case it's more about balance and not realism. I can see your the space marine player wanting to shoot into the open transport

[Born Again]

Because GW remembers the days when each vehicle in the game would have it's own set of damage tables for each location on the vehicle and doesn't want to go back there. A wise decision, I'd say.

[AlphariusOmegon20]

Actually the stupid part is GW already has the mechanic that could settle the issue to where you COULD hit the squad on an open topped transport. Unfortunately, it's in Fantasy.

The Ridden Monster hit randomization mechanic could easily be converted over to handle this.

1-4 : Hits the Transport
5-6 : Hits the squad in the Transport.

Simple and takes only an extra couple of seconds to use.

[itcamefromthedeep]

Because then you have the associated problems of guys in paper-thin armour (Orks, Dark Eldar) getting shot out of their transports before they can do anything (hoho, Flamers!), or failing a morale check and exploding all over the place because they can't fall back.

When a unit in a transport has to take a morale test for 25% casualties (such as when a psyker's head pops or when a bunch of the passengers get themselves killed with plasma guns) the unit doesn't go exploding all over the place.

Actually, I can't quite remember if they've figured out that this can happen... but they did/would without a shadow of a doubt make the passengers immune to morale tests.

---

So long as you can shoot at troops using a top-hatch firing point too then sure, let people shoot at passengers. When a new edition rolls around they could implement an option to fire at transported troops (offering a cover save) and then buff open-topped transports to compensate.

[Friedrich von Offenbach]

i've killed a raider with a flamer, but then all the guys got out fine and killed me back.....not sure how that worked

[Lord Damocles]

i've killed a raider with a flamer, but then all the guys got out fine and killed me back.....not sure how that worked

I once destroyed a Rhino by annihilating it with high explosive ordnance - to the point where all that was left was a smoking crater - but then all the guys got out fine and killed me back.....not sure how that worked either.


Tearing apart light infantry inside their transports doesn't do much to make the game more sensible/realistic/balanced.

[Ponge]

Actually the stupid part is GW already has the mechanic that could settle the issue to where you COULD hit the squad on an open topped transport. Unfortunately, it's in Fantasy.

The Ridden Monster hit randomization mechanic could easily be converted over to handle this.

1-4 : Hits the Transport
5-6 : Hits the squad in the Transport.

Simple and takes only an extra couple of seconds to use.

So you'd rather have a 33ish% chance of hitting an ork with your lascannon/meltaguns then hitting a battlewagon/truck?

[The Marshel]

I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times, to create an enjoyable game for all, at certain times you'll have to completely abandon realism.

simply put, if it were possible to snipe units out of open toped transports every player with open topped transports is going to feel frustrated and cheated. It's not a nice feeling, and when you're creating a game, with the intention of selling it, you dont want it to make people feel annoyed, so you avoid things that would obviously annoy people, like this.

IRL, makes perfect sense, ingame, plain annoying

[Phaeron Setek]

If you read the Death World Battle Missions in April's White Dwarf, they set up some of the environmental hazards to hit passengers in open-topped vehicles... a step in the right direction...

[AlphariusOmegon20]

So you'd rather have a 33ish% chance of hitting an ork with your lascannon/meltaguns then hitting a battlewagon/truck?

It would be a step in the right direction, if not the final solution. At least you'd HAVE a chance to hit them.

The Raider is bigger than the squad inside it, therefore you do have more of a chance to hit it than them.

Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways. Either you can have the chance to hit them and risk wasting a Lascannon shot on a lowly Ork, or you can not be able to target them at all, which is where we are at now. There's no middle ground.

[Sqallum]

I guess so.... never mind, (hopefully) 6th Ed will do someting to rectify the problem. But yes, it would be unfair if you could snipe at orks in their trukk. Now lets get started on how 10 space marines can kill 1000 Dark Eldar over several hours without taking a casulty...
Thanks guys,
Sqallum

[Hawkkf]

I would think that template weapons and things that hit the top armor should do d6 wounds to the occupants of open topped vehicles. That would represent the fact that it has no top, but still has side armor protection. Also maybe use the rear armor on open topped vehicles for determining damage versus things that hit the top armor such as ordnance barrages.

On a side note shouldnt it be difficult to disembark from a vehicle going over 6"? I mean if a model walking up to it cant punch it 50% of the time it has to be pretty difficult to get out of safely. I would say that unless its an assault vehicle or open topped, then it should be dangerous terrain test to jump out of a fast moving vehicle. That, or if a regular transport unloads troops then it counts as stationary for that movement phase as it obviously stopped to let the troops out. I feel open topped and assault vehicles would be designed to unload troops while continueing moving.

On another side note, would it be so bad if exploding a vehicle automatically pinned a unit? The exception would be for open topped vehicles where getting out is easier than staying in.

[megatrons2nd]

I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times, to create an enjoyable game for all, at certain times you'll have to completely abandon realism.

simply put, if it were possible to snipe units out of open toped transports every player with open topped transports is going to feel frustrated and cheated. It's not a nice feeling, and when you're creating a game, with the intention of selling it, you dont want it to make people feel annoyed, so you avoid things that would obviously annoy people, like this.

IRL, makes perfect sense, ingame, plain annoying

You do realize that you are talking about GW right? They annoy people with decisions many dislike all the time. I play Dark Eldar, and would not mind a mechanic that allowed open top transported troops to be hit. However, I also would like closed top transports to be closer to the death traps they are in the real world. If a vehicle explodes and you are sealed in it, unless you are reeeeallllllly lucky, you are dead. Now an exploding open topped vehicle will still kill you, but your chances of survival is much greater because you might be able to bail out before the boom. Wrecking both would have a similar result of being shaken/knocked about and disoriented for a moment(unless moving at extreme speeds which would probably be fatal for both types).