How do i have to place it when it arrives from reserves? Do i have to have the whole model on the board or with just the base is enough?
How do i have to place it when it arrives from reserves? Do i have to have the whole model on the board or with just the base is enough?
Isn't the flying base longer than the model anyway?
WIngs are part of the hull so they must be on the table.
Per the Rulebook FAQ, if the entire model isn't on the table after moving, it would be destroyed. So, it either needs to move far enough that the model doesn't overhang the table edge (i.e. move at Cruising Speed), or you need to use Deep Strike to get it on the table.
Culven
Commander, Catachan XIII "Black Cats"
"Pray that a Black Cat never crosses your path."
We debate RaW, not in an attempt to gain an advantage, but rather to better understand the rules as they are written so that problems can be identified, addressed, and possible solutions developed before we get to the game table.
I'm going to repectfully disagree, Culven BRB FAQWhy wouldn't we use the same ruling for the table edge as we do for terrain?Q: What part of a skimmer on a large oval flying base
is used to determine if it is in/on terrain or if it is on
friendly or enemy models? (p71)
A: Just the base itself.
"Do you use the number on the bottom of the die to determine your rolls? Because the book doesn't discuss that the top is the correct side to read, either. Some things are just THAT obvious."
Because the BRB doesn't explain what kind of terrain 'off the table edge' is (because terrain is used on the gaming table)? Because off the table is 'the end of the world'? Because in the Skimmers section under 'Measuring Distances', it tells us the all measurements are to/from the hull (not the base)...the exceptions being to use the base for assault, objectives, dis/embarking and terrain presence. Because FAQS have shown us the wings are part of the hull and models unable to move fully onto the board are destoyed?Originally Posted by Seattledv8
Those are my guesses.
Last edited by triplare; 09-04-2012 at 22:40. Reason: typo in first sentence
The only rules I need to complete my full 40k 5th edition collection: WD365(US) (Eldar/IG datasheets); WD368(US) (CD datasheets); WD373(US) (BA datasheets)
I'd say that the FAQ clairified the stance of GW that the Large Oval Flying Models will use their base only for determining if they are on the board. The initial FAQ about not being on the board showed they would be destroyed if they were not entirely on the board, but the new FAQ shows that you only use the base for these models. This is a change from normal skimmers which use their hull. The FAQ basically says to ignore the hull for determining where the model is.
I'm not sure where you see the FAQ states or implies that Valks/Vendettas are treated different as different kinds of Skimmers. And where is it that models using a large oval base ignore the 'Measuring Distances' part of the Skimmers section? The FAQ actually doesn't say to ignore the hull of determining where the model is (as can be seen in the Tank Shock section mentioning both the base and the hull). The rules clarifiy to use the base for assaults, objectives, terrain and dis/embarking because the hull of the vehicle is so high off the table top, it required additional explaination.
The hull needs to be fully on the table. There isn't anything that states otherwise.
The only rules I need to complete my full 40k 5th edition collection: WD365(US) (Eldar/IG datasheets); WD368(US) (CD datasheets); WD373(US) (BA datasheets)
That still strikes me as inconsistent.
As long as the base isn't over impassable terrain/troops it can be placed, and the hull ignored.
But if the tail is over the table edge it somehow is treated differently?
The large oval bases are the ones given this exception by the FAQ (the other skimmers are unchanged).
This FAQ does state differently.
"Do you use the number on the bottom of the die to determine your rolls? Because the book doesn't discuss that the top is the correct side to read, either. Some things are just THAT obvious."
True enough, they are different from Skimmers that are not on a large oval base...the hulls are raised far enough off the table top to warrent inclusionof rules dealing with situations on the table in the FAQs. Off-board IS treated differently, because you can't make a measurement 'out-there' and certainly can't place a model off the table. There is no 'off-table' terrain.
I'm just saying that I can't recall one example where a vehicle's hull is allowed to sit on the line between table and off-table. Models moving across a table stop (or are removed) when any part of the base or hull reaches 'the edge'. Models must move completely onto the table from reserve or are destroyed. Where is permission specifically given for a model to be partially off the board? I don't think there is any permission given.
The only rules I need to complete my full 40k 5th edition collection: WD365(US) (Eldar/IG datasheets); WD368(US) (CD datasheets); WD373(US) (BA datasheets)
The model is not off the board because you are to measure it's location on the board using only the oval base. It's not given permission to be off the board, but the way you measure it's location is different. The whole vehicle must get onto the board, but when we read in the FAQ what counts as the whole vehicle we are told that it is only the area of the Large Oval Base.
I heard someone give the best reasoning for the model having to move so no part is hanging off the board. If you move just 6" so the base is on the board the tail and in some cases the wings still hang over. If it was imobilized then by the rules you are supposed to remove the base and sit it down. At this point you have a vehicle that is physically half off the board (unless you refuse to remove the stand, but thats another thread). Seems that the only way to avoid this is to move all parts of the model onto the board. We can only hope this gets addressed much more clearly in the next additon as it is rumored to have many fliers in it.
That's a terrible reason, as people are allowed to place their tanks under the wings. If that same vehicle was immobilzed, where does it go? No rules.
Since you have o rules you must make some. But we do have rules for the immobilised wing off the table thing. So we must follow them.
Actually , that one has an answer, although to a different question. BRB FAQQ: If a skimmer is forced to stop moving by a Death or
Glory! attack whilst over a friendly or enemy model
what happens? (p71)
A: Move the skimmer the shortest possible distance so
that it is no longer over any models.
"Do you use the number on the bottom of the die to determine your rolls? Because the book doesn't discuss that the top is the correct side to read, either. Some things are just THAT obvious."
Well that tells me how I'm going to play it. I'll have my "flyers" overhang and if they get destroyed or immobilized, they will crash onto the table.
Wait, there is a FAQ that tells you that if part of the hull is off the table the model gets destroyed, and there is a FAQ that tells you that the wings are part of the hull.
And you prefere a FAQ adressing a situation having to do with something concidered impassable terrain?
seems reasonable since you consider the hull the base here.
Win/Ties/Loss:
Tau 27/2/8 2009, 5/0/2 2012, 1/0/0 2013
Greyknights 17/3/4 2011, 47/4/11 2012
Which FAQ tells you the base is the hull? All I see are exceptions and the destroyed if partly off the table isn't in them.
The Location of the "Flyers" on the board is entirely decided by the position of the oval base. The location of it's wings and nose and other parts, while still relavent for shooting and other measurements, does not cause the vehicle to be considered off the board. The only problem with that reading was what to do with the model should it suffer an immoblized result, and that FAQ seems to answer that nicely. It is an exception to the normal rules given for every other vehicle. If you read my previous posts on this subject, you will note that I held very strictly to the hull is hull and must be entirely on the table view. The FAQ about terrain changed that.
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