brainteaser!

[thesoundofmusica]

40K Army: Other

I havent played 40k for about 6 years. I played with a small group of friends and family (7 of us) and we all stopped playing fantasy and 40k at the same time for different reasons. Last year we started up fantasy again. Now me and my youngest brother want to get 40k going too. But the problem is he doesnt have the time (or money lol) to work on more then one army. So I was thinking I'd surprise him with two small fully painted armys, Tyranids and Blood Angels. We were watching a battle report last night which featured these two armies (or whatever they are called in 40k, dont remember) and I've always been a fan of Tyranids and he happened to think BAs looked great!

So the brainteaser: I'd like for you savvy 40k brainiacs to help me put together two balanced lists that would only be going up against eachother, countering eachothers strengths and be generally fun in a casual way.

I was thinking 750points (for starters at least).

Since this will be a side project of mine (working on beastmen atm) I wont be getting any codex for a while, and it wouldnt really help me put together a balanced force anyways since I dont know anything about the current 40k edition. No need to post any points costs as per forum rules, and cost for models is no issue.

Would really appreciate some help on this one =)

[Nasha]

Tjena kompis
Firstly I can't help you with nids but the angels it depends on if you want mech it descent of angels style lists...
For mech I'd say
Librarian
Priest
2 x 5 man assault squads with power weapon and melta
2 x las plas Razorbacks
2 x baal predators with assault cannons

Gives you (if my memory serves me well) 740 points
For descent list id suggest

Librarian with jump pack
Priest woth jump pack
3 x 5 man assault squads with power weapon and melta (jump packs)
Gives you 575 to add to as you please...I'd personally add jump pack death company as their scary as hell...or a librarian furioso dreadnought

Hope that helps mate

[thesoundofmusica]

Thanks for getting the thread started =)

I had no idea you could fit that much mech into 750p =D
Knowing nothing about army composition for tyranids and BAs respectively I'll assume all lists posted are legal.
Leaning towards the first list.

So what would be a nice tyranid setup to counter that much mech? I really like monstrous creatures and genestealers altho the latter might not be cost effective in such a small game I really dont know. Would it at all be possible to counter that much mech?

Gimme your ideas please =)

[Nasha]

Having played against nids a bit recently all I can say is carnifexes hurt tanks...and the troops inside em
Is try a broodlord with stealers and big gribblies...but that's comin from someone with no experience playing with nids...only kllin em

[Tokunator]

You could go:

a) Nidzilla:

Hive Tyrant with 2 Scything Talons and Wings

Tervigon with Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs and Catalyst (Tervigons are HQ or can be Troops if you have at least one unit of Termagaunts for each Tervigon, they spawn new units of Termagaunts and share their Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs with Gaunt units in 6 inches)

12 Termagaunts

11 Termagaunts

1 Trygon: Adrenal Glands

This list gives you two big monsters to go and kill as many Marines as possible. The Tyrant flies and the Trygon can move d6 in the shooting phase and still charge as it is fleet, so they are both rather quick. They will die eventually, but they might just have killed enough Marines to cripple them and let the Gaunt units shoot them.
The Gaunts and Tervigon stay behind, take objectives and engage the leftovers.


b) Stealer Heavy:

1 Tyranid Warrior Prime (as you need an HQ)

2*16 Genestealers: Broodlord and Toxin Sacs

This list will eat Marines alive if they don't have enough firepower. Might not make for exciting games though

c) A balanced list:

Tervigon with Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs and Catalyst as HQ

2 Hive Guard
Antitank with 4 S8 shots

12 Termagaunts

11 Genestealers with Toxin Sacs

Trygon with Adrenal Sacs

[thesoundofmusica]

C) is looking good. I read somewhere that genestealers can wreck vehicles if they have to? So that should give the nids some good chances against those razorbacks and preds yes? With those guard you mentioned.

Question: in the BA mech list, are the assault marines without jumppacks and suppose to go in the razorbacks? Is that common practice?

[Tokunator]

Stealers roll an additional d3 when they roll a 6 to penetrate tank armour, so they can get through tank armour easily enough.

Blood Angels Assault Marines can give up their Jump Packs to get a 35 points discount on a transport. It is done fairly often, though I am not sure it's the best thing to do in small games.

[burning crome]

If you want to be really nasty you could go for the fire storm BA build which is assault squads in TL flamer razor backs. Through in a librarian with a honuer guard squad for some shielding and fear of the darkness and plasma gun fire and it'll pretty much go though any tryinid list with any problems which isn't really what you where after.
I'm pretty much trying to do the same thing as you (as you can see in my thread that slowly dropping of the bottom). What you need to do is sort of define a theme did you want the BA descending form the sky to sever the head of the broad. Or was it them desperately holding back the tide of the swarm.

[Tokunator]

Fear of the darkness is not that great against Nids as they are all Fearless if in Synapse Range.

Overall, the match-up will be tough for Blood Angels, as they are best at killing other MEq (= Marine Equivalents) where their access to Furious Charge helps them quickly break units in combat. Against Tyranids, they tend to lose close combats because the Nids are either faster than them (Stealers have Ini 6) or too tough for small units.

So if you want the games to be balanced, you should try to make the Blood Angel army shootier.

I am not sure if the road the above army goes (two minimal Assault units backed up by 4 Assault Cannons) really have enough fire power to shoot down Nids. But then again, I never play 750 points games with my Blood Angels.

[thesoundofmusica]

I was wondering about that setup with mech and only 2 small squads.... can vehicles hold objectives? If they cant wouldnt this setup be at a huge disadvantage?

edit: while I think shootier might be good, I also really like the idea of assault marines throwing themselfs at the tyranid horde. Altho if this means the BAs will get chewed up every time, then that's a big nono. Also I have no idea how to make them shootier, what would give more firepower then say a predator at about the same points cost?

Lets say these are the lists to work with =)

Librarian
Priest
2 x 5 man assault squads with power weapon and melta
2 x las plas Razorbacks
2 x baal predators with assault cannons

vs

Tervigon with Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs and Catalyst as HQ
2 x Hive Guard , Antitank with 4 S8 shots
12 x Termagaunts
11 x Genestealers with Toxin Sacs
Trygon with Adrenal Sacs

[Nasha]

Hmm glad u went with my suggestion but lookin at it it may be eirth dropping a melta for a flamer, drop a baal...then take a squad of devastators with 4 missile launchers...lotsa shooty and the flamer is better against small gribblies

[darklordzoul]

i myself dont play either but from what i can think of for bugs-
tyranid prime talons and deathspitter
2x20 guants
2x fex with hvy venom cannon should put you close

prime is independent so can attach to a squad giving them 24 shotsish before charge at full str.
other gaunt is your screen
2 fex well they walk and look scary hvy venom and there assualts will be your anti-tank

as for BA only ever played them but speed is there thing does anyone want to do math hammer 2 jump squads p fist plas, jump HQ, dropping dreads?, and maybe speeder filler
if list above works as i think should be fast enough can pick the target you want while still putting some armour that wont get destroyed so much by fex as it is WS on WS and gives him the ap to make the bug think about his gaunt screen

[thesoundofmusica]

I will be buying the first units next week =)
Will probably be genestealers and an assault squad.

So now the lists look like this:

Librarian
Priest
2 x 5 man assault squads with power weapon and flamer
1 x 5 (10?) man devastator squad with missile launchers
2 x las plas Razorbacks
1 x baal predators with assault cannons

vs

Tervigon with Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs and Catalyst as HQ
2 x Hive Guard , Antitank with 4 S8 shots
12 x Termagaunts
11 x Genestealers with Toxin Sacs
Trygon with Adrenal Sacs

Questions: How many devastators will I be able to fit into that squad, dropping one of the predators to pay for it? Also, what roles do the Tervigon and Trygon fill?

Quite pleased with the amount of big critters and mech! =D

[Nasha]

5 devastators with 4 missile launchers mate...that should be enough

[thesoundofmusica]

I popped by the local store today. So many colors O_O

Anyways, just to be a PITA I'd like the genestealers to be just 8 in that group. To keep the cost down lol. Buying a pack for just 3 models dont work for me. =D I suppose nuffin spectacular can be bought for the points saved?

Other then that, the army building is on! Anything can be changed still except the genestealers and one assault squad which is what I bought already.

[Nasha]

I know what you mean by PITA but as a swede should you not have said fitta? :P apologies at my poor attempt of humour
Good luck my friend...make sure yiu put a painting log up on here