Librarian Command Squad

[theweck]

I am putting together a drop pod heavy list. It includes both a captain and a librarian. I am planning on taking the command squad allowed by the captain, but attaching the librarian to the squad instead of the captain. The squad consists of the following.

Librarian w/ gate, null zone, and a plasma pistol
Champion
Apothecary
3 Veterans with plasma guns

The idea is to have the squad gate around the table, using the locater beacons on the drop pods to land with precision. I am hoping such a mobile firebase with a significant volume of plasma fire will have some positive effect. The point cost is high, but not deathstar cost by any means. Null zone is there to make the most of the plasma's AP2.

As far as meta is concerned, I travel alot and play in a variety of places, so I can never really be sure of what I will be against. The remainder of the of the list is very melta heavy with some drop dreads as well.

Any thoughts from people before I go to the effort of converting the squad up?

[Vipoid]

I am putting together a drop pod heavy list. It includes both a captain and a librarian. I am planning on taking the command squad allowed by the captain, but attaching the librarian to the squad instead of the captain. The squad consists of the following.

Librarian w/ gate, null zone, and a plasma pistol
Champion
Apothecary
3 Veterans with plasma guns

The idea is to have the squad gate around the table, using the locater beacons on the drop pods to land with precision. I am hoping such a mobile firebase with a significant volume of plasma fire will have some positive effect. The point cost is high, but not deathstar cost by any means. Null zone is there to make the most of the plasma's AP2.

As far as meta is concerned, I travel alot and play in a variety of places, so I can never really be sure of what I will be against. The remainder of the of the list is very melta heavy with some drop dreads as well.

Any thoughts from people before I go to the effort of converting the squad up?

I don't claim to be an expert, but I don't see the point of the champion. Wouldn't an additional veteran with plasmagun be better? I ask because this doesn't appear to be a squad that you'd ever want in combat, so the champion just seems a waste of points.

Also, I'd take a combi-melta on the librarian, instead of the plasma pistol.

[Carnage]

I am putting together a drop pod heavy list. It includes both a captain and a librarian. I am planning on taking the command squad allowed by the captain, but attaching the librarian to the squad instead of the captain. The squad consists of the following.

Mistake #1; Vanilla HQs are pretty crumby outside of Vulkan or a bike Captain for the bike troop unlock. Best to stick to a budget librarian and nothing else.

Librarian w/ gate, null zone, and a plasma pistol
Champion
Apothecary
3 Veterans with plasma guns

Mistake #2. You plan on dropping close enough to use a plasma pistol? You will get charged so hard in the enemy's turn. Also, both of your powers have to be used in your turn, so you are choosing between powers each turn. Not sure why you went with a champion. Do you want to shoot or do melee? Focus on one task man.

The idea is to have the squad gate around the table, using the locater beacons on the drop pods to land with precision. I am hoping such a mobile firebase with a significant volume of plasma fire will have some positive effect. The point cost is high, but not deathstar cost by any means. Null zone is there to make the most of the plasma's AP2.

Mistake #3. AFAIK, locater beacons do not help with the librarian's gate power. Also remember you can't use both powers in the same turn unless you waste 50 points on the epistolary upgrade.

[theweck]

For some reason I thought the champ was a mandatory choice (I'm writing this out from memory and will double check when I get home). If he is not required, then I definately will be going with one more plasma gunner.

The captain is unlocking bikes, but a decked out bike command seemed to be a bit of a point sink, so he is running around elsewhere.

I know I can't use both powers in the same turn but putting 50 points down for the epistolary upgrade seemed wasteful for the selectively useful effect of null zone. Gate is the the main reason for the libby to be there.

Most the sources I have talked to about the beacon have stated I can use the beacon with the libby, but maybe I will post something in the rules forum later and see what people have to say.

[Vipoid]

I know I can't use both powers in the same turn but putting 50 points down for the epistolary upgrade seemed wasteful for the selectively useful effect of null zone. Gate is the the main reason for the libby to be there.

Whilst I agree that 50pts to cast 2 powers a turn is a waste, I'd far rather take a librarian for null zone and psychic hood then for gate. If you can get to the centre of the field, the zone and hood give you a lot of control - you have a decent chance of negating most psychic powers cast, and you can also negate a large portion of your enemy's invulnerable saves (which works well in conjunction with plasmaguns, and also helps other sections of your army). Perhaps you should consider giving the squad a rhino or razorback, rather than a drop pod.

[Governor Gallagher]

Mistake #2. You plan on dropping close enough to use a plasma pistol? You will get charged so hard in the enemy's turn.

Not if he's careful! I agree about ditching the champ and pistol though. As far as the second power, the only ones that work in your opponents turn are quickening and might of ancients, which are cc powers, which he will be avoiding. I like either null zone, force dome, or avenger as a second power, but you will probably never use any of them except null zone.

You definitely can use the beacon with the teleport. Some people will give you guff for it but they really just haven't read the rules closely. I prefer taking sternguard with combi weapons over a plasma gun command squad though. They are a lot more versatile.

[Str10_hurts]

You might want to consider sternguard, but if you are 100% shure you want to go for a command squad go for 4 plasma's and get an librarian with the avenger in pod, or if he is teleporting around give him a combi-melta/plasma. Get your Captain a stormshield and a way of faster movement and let him countercharge stuff.

Personally I'd hang back with the gating librarian with unit and wait for the pods to land then precise strike towards one of the locator beacons were he is needed.

[theweck]

Based on people's input, here is the adjusted unit:

Librarian w/ gate, null zone, and a Combi plasma
Apothecary
4 Veterans with plasma guns


I hear people on the sternguard thing, but all of my elite slots are already taken up in the list I am building, so they are out. I'm still sort of up in the air on the plasma pistol thing, but will give a combi plasma a try as many people have pushed for a combi weapon of some variety. I feel dumb on the thinking champs were mandatory thing, not sure what I was thinking of in that case. Given that I am running a melta heavy list, with a plasma command, I think null zone is a safe power to keep.

The whole army will not be done for a month or two, but when this gets finished, i'll give an update to on how it goes.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

Hmm. A basic bike Troop can carry two plasma guns and a multi-melta, all relentless, for about 90 points less.

[theweck]

@Nurgling Chieftain - All of the troop choices in the list are in fact bike squads with 2 meltas and a multi melta. I'm not sure if the 90 point premium is an issue in light of the two additional plasma guns, and the FnP for the entirety of the unit. The librarian has a bit of utility as well, between the powers and the hood.

[Governor Gallagher]

Awesome! I'd really like to know how they work. Are you going to model them up like a librarians comand squad? I've always loved the idea that the librarius and reclusium have thier own comand squads. A squad modeled with robes, tabards, scrolls, books, ect would look pretty amazing.

[Crimson Templar]

I think that a close combat oriented squad would be better. In a vanilla list, you can get a lot of power weapon attacks in a command squad and can use a libby to augment the squad to make it a deathstar killer. I can agree with others that for a ranged unit, stearnguard squad is more versitile.

[theweck]

@ Gallagher - They are going to be modeled to be a librarian's entourage. I'm using the robed dark angel vet models as the base, and adding all sort of little arcane bits to make them stand out. The prototype looks pretty good, I'm just hoping my mediocre painting skills can do it justice.

@ Templar - I recognize the potential for a close combat libby squad, but I am not certain how well that would work with the Gate dynamic I'm trying to use here. The list I am putting this has sufficient assault elements, and if I were going to use a libby assault squad, I would just throw him in with a bunch of TH/SS termies. As far as sternguard are concerned, I will not be able to get the same volume of plasma fire, with the exception of fielding a bunch of combi plasma, which will only get one shot over the course of the game. I also like the thought of having the apothecary in with my plasma spam squad, as with the volume of fire 4 plasma guns will put out, an overheat is inevitable. The special ammunition makes them great at killing most kinds of infantry, but I was hoping for something that was equally at home killing light vehicles, as well as MEQ and monstrous creatures. A comparable sternguard squad costs about 25 points less, but half of the plasma is combi only, and the squad does not get the FnP from the apothecary.

[Konovalev]

The special ammunition makes them great at killing most kinds of infantry, but I was hoping for something that was equally at home killing light vehicles, as well as MEQ and monstrous creatures. A comparable sternguard squad costs about 25 points less, but half of the plasma is combi only, and the squad does not get the FnP from the apothecary.

Have you looked at the special ammunitions? You've got AP3 ammo for MEQ, and wound anything on 4+ ammo for your monstrous creatures, take 2 melta guns or something and you've got your anti-light vehicle too. I think there's ammo that also ignores covers saves too isn't there? I think sternguard really make for a better retinue than a command squad if you're looking for a shooty libby escort.

[theweck]

I have seen the special ammo choices, and while they are certainly nice, I don't think they serve as a replacement for bulk plasma. The AP 3 ammunition is only str 4, and if i remember correctly has gets hot. If I am carrying the risk of getting hot, I would prefer pierce MEQ armor as well as wound on a 2+. Many monstrous creatures also have a good save, so the blend of high strength plus low AP in the same shot is a more reliable solution than choosing between good AP or consistent wounding. Also, with lots of terminators running around these days (looking at you grey knights), AP2 is a good resource to have.

I guess to sum up the arguement, the plasma is effective against pretty much everything in the game but the heaviest front armor, while the special ammunition is just ok against a wide variety of targets, and falls short against 2+ saves and vehicles of any type. Special weapons can help against these vehicles, but the command squad wins out given that it consists entirely of special weapons rather than just a pair of them.