new griffon model vs the previous model.

[yabbadabba]

also like the knight on top of it (eventhough it is NOT karl franz, just some guy wielding Gal-Maraz),

As only Karl Franz can take Ghal Maraz, you will need a hell of a background story to justify a knight carrying it.

[Athelassan]

Well, there's Valten. And Heinrich Todbringer. And the PCs from Enemy in Flames. And various figures from history...

[yabbadabba]

Well, there's Valten. And Heinrich Todbringer. And the PCs from Enemy in Flames. And various figures from history...

In the WFB game. And none of those are just some knight.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Valten always carries Ghal Maraz. In my army anyway.

[Brother Fenix]

Size - good
Head - Not quite proportionate
Double Head -
Karl Franz Helmet - (It looks like the little dude with the hammer on top is going to smash the beakie part closed)
Model Position -

[Shadow_Steed]

I love everything about the new model. Especially with Karl Franz as rider.

[zoggin-eck]

I actually like the two-headed version, perhaps as an unridden monster instead, though.

[Warlord Ghazak Gazhkull]

I like the new griffon, but I prefer the old one with karl franz that is also the reason I bought the old one recently. Not that I'm an empire player but just in case I'll ever start with the army then I have a cool old model.

Cheers,
G

[yabbadabba]

Valten always carries Ghal Maraz. In my army anyway.

Have you got an 8e ruleset for him? I have all three models and wouldn't mind fielding him. Ta.

[Axel]

I have the old Karl-Franz on Deathclaw and will not get me the new - too big for my taste. To each his own, I assume.
GWs (and FWs) shift to "bigger" has send cashflow for my Empire-army away from GW to historical lines like Artizan or TAG.

[aldo_milo]

just finished assembling my griffon (been at sea for the last week) and it is long her from forward claw to tail than a SM rhino, and almost twice as tall as a dreadnought, table to top of the wings it's nearly 3x the height of a dread. it's quite possibly the biggest model i have personally seen.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Have you got an 8e ruleset for him? I have all three models and wouldn't mind fielding him. Ta.

I just count him as Karl Franz. I have the Games Day model Valten the Exalted on foot, plus on horse, and I use his Elven steed as a "counts-as" Pegasus.

[aldo_milo]

am i the only one who thinks a lion with an eagle for a front should not be larger than a tank or a walking coffin-bot?

[Jind_Singh]

I like it - the old Karl Franz Griff was too small - the next metal one with a generic lord on it was it a lot better.

The Island of blood griff is sweeeet - and I was always going to make it an Imperial Griff....

Until GW made THE GW Griff of the End Times - tis sweeeet!

I like it, it's got it's own look - which combined with different stat lines and upgrades to other Griffs I like the size!

Good model - did they get it 100% right? No - look at similar comments to head size, rider positioning, but overall it's a solid 90% win!


My gripe is that the older models look weedy - the High Elf Dragon is lame ducks compared to the new Black Dragon, and a lot of other beasties need some TLC

[Scythe]

I like the new model. That said, I still prefer the older empire general on griffon metal model (not Karl Franz on Deathclaw, but the 6th edition Griffon). The plastic model certainly has its nice touches, but it is close against my disbelief horizon, given its enormous size and the small creatures it is a combination off.

[Dreadlordpaul]

I like it - the old Karl Franz Griff was too small - the next metal one with a generic lord on it was it a lot better.

The Island of blood griff is sweeeet - and I was always going to make it an Imperial Griff....

Until GW made THE GW Griff of the End Times - tis sweeeet!

I like it, it's got it's own look - which combined with different stat lines and upgrades to other Griffs I like the size!

Good model - did they get it 100% right? No - look at similar comments to head size, rider positioning, but overall it's a solid 90% win!


My gripe is that the older models look weedy - the High Elf Dragon is lame ducks compared to the new Black Dragon, and a lot of other beasties need some TLC

How do you think us WoC players feel that our only chaos dragon model is a large metal model which is a special character

[Dr Death]

I like the new model. That said, I still prefer the older empire general on griffon metal model (not Karl Franz on Deathclaw, but the 6th edition Griffon). The plastic model certainly has its nice touches, but it is close against my disbelief horizon, given its enormous size and the small creatures it is a combination off.

am i the only one who thinks a lion with an eagle for a front should not be larger than a tank or a walking coffin-bot?

I think that's taking the idea of a creature that 'looks' like a cross between an eagle and a big cat a little too literally. In a fantasy world a griffon isn't just some walking taxidermy experiment gone wrong- it is a species in and of itself, a noble species, a terrifying species that is both a status symbol of the imperial nobility and a shock weapon on battlefields where other mythological beasts, gunpowder, artillery and magic are (relatively) commonplace (or at least far from unheard of). Of course you don't have to be immense to be a threat to humans- we know of many real world creatures who have had 'reigns of terror' killing hundreds of humans over the years, they doso on a one-by-one basis; a tiger if confronted as an enemy 'soldier' by armed men would not stand that much of a chance- it's only where you have individual hunters who are trying to track it down and kill it in it's own environment that it can evade and turn the tables on them despite their superior equipment.

In the context of fantasy warfare, monsters instead take on a rather anachronistic role- they become flesh and blood representations of the steel behemoths that modern warfare has made so prevalent. A griffon isn't so much a beast as it is an aeroplane. From a gameplay point of view this adds another 'front' or angle to how you can engage your enemy. Andrew Adamson in directing the first Narnia film became very keen on his own griffons (which were admittedly more of the size people here seem to want) because it allowed him to add the element of aerial warfare, and perhaps at the same time meant as a fantasy mirror to the WW2 dogfights and bombing raids the film and book were set against. At the introduction of mechanised warfare there was a very close association for the more poetically minded between these new war machines and mythological monsters- even now (and particularly in warhammer circles) we invest these creations with a high degree of animism- treating machines as flesh and blood beings; tanks 'belch' smoke to provide one instantly recalled example, although even referring to them as 'behemoths' or 'leviathans' is quite pointedly used to evoke creatures from the bible.

So if monsters are taken in this context to be retrograde representations of machines, why does that mean they have to be so big? Well it's quite simple really, and perfectly logical- monsters aren't made of steel (with the exception of warhammer's most perfect fusing of the mythological and mechanical aspects- the Juggernaut of Khorne), so therefore to serve the same purpose of their scientific successors, they are forced to become bigger, thicker, more robust to withstand the comparable punishment to their modern analogies. 'Small arms fire' should bounce off them, cannon fire should be a cause for concern but still sustainable if it only scores a glancing hit.

It's actually quite a fun game to 'match' certain mythological creatures to their modern warfare equivalents in the role they play. In that context (and admitting modern warfare is not my forte or specific area of interest), i see the Griffon as something of a Harrier Jump Jet- not immense, not some 'lord of the sky' but with a fearsome reputation and immense tactical flexibility. If we were to take primitive gunpowder to have about the same effect on flesh and bone as modern firearms do on steel, the griffon would still have to be about the size of a Harrier. As for say Imrik, he isn't riding Minaithnir, oh no, he's straddling Enola Gaye!

I mean it's not as if creatures the size of the griffon have never existed. It wasn't a million years ago (no, it was several million years ago) that dinosaurs walked this earth and some of them dwarfed pretty much any machine we now field in our modern armed forced. In fact there's a very strong chance that fossils may have inspired some of the stories of creatures we now call mythological, and in the transfer of myths a lion-bird could simply have been a naive interpretation of creatures we now admire in museums.

So yes, don't let the simplistic hybridisation fool you, these beasts are much more than just the sum of their parts, and for all purposes in this game, save transporting the models, bigger is better.

Dr Death

[Mr. Ultra]

What I wondering is, there's that much demand of griffons that lately we have a new model every year? The Island of Blood one, the Imperial One, someone mentioned a new Eltharion one in the future, sure the Brets will have one when their book comes out, maybe Forge World makes one... Griffons are the new dragons?

[Souppilgrim]

Love the new model. I think the old ones look weird because they are too small to realistically lift the rider, wearing full plate, into the air.

[aldo_milo]

Love the new model. I think the old ones look weird because they are too small to realistically lift the rider, wearing full plate, into the air.

but a pegasus can realistically lift a man in full plate into the sky?