I think it is a bit too big, but it is a very nice model.
I think it is a bit too big, but it is a very nice model.
Member of J.A.D.E.DTrying to convince Warseer that GW are anything less than perfect is like trying to teach a horde of zombies that lettuce is a perfectly acceptable alternative to brains.
Lest we forget
People complaining about its size compared to a dragon please remember that the dragon models are older and not that crash hot any way lol. GW will be revisting these monsters when the relevant army book comes along and we should see dragons become the awe inspiring minis that they should be.
As for the actual model, i like it, looks like arnie did back in the day, pumped full of stims and roids!
Nice model in my opinion, but too big. It dwarves too many other creatures that are supposedly the same size or bigger. Also I find the metal karl franz model better than the plastic one but I've been the nostalgia kind of person lately ^^
Will I get one? No. Why? because I don't play empire :-)
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Originally Posted by snottlebocket
I really like the new griffin's pose, they really nailed the proud, ornate, regal look depicted in Empire heraldry. The new griffon is practically a personification of the Empire griffon heraldry lol.
I still don't quite understand the complaints of those who say it's too big (particularly compared to other monsters), surely that's evidence that the existing monster models are too small rather than the griffon being too big? For example i think dragons in the warhammer world are realistically about the size forgeworld produces them, and by that standard the griffon is tiny. The fact that mainstream gw models are yet to catch up with their 'true' scale is ultimately irrelevant to my view- there is going to have to be a model that makes the jump to it's proper size first and i'm glad Deathclaw is leading the poke in that direction (like i say though, i think he's actually a touch small). The Griffon is a pretty significant monster, perhaps only second (for quadrupoid monsters) in terms of size after a dragon (which i've already said i regard as being 'forgeworld' size fluffwise), although with competition from other major monsters like Wyverns, Manticores and Chimearas.
Dr Death
I think the model perfectly portrays what its meant to be a product of a captive breeding programme at the Imperial Zoo and of course they'd attempt to make the beasts as huge and flamboyant as possible, personally I dont really think it would fit in with a High Elf army but if people want to use it as such I'm not going to naysay them though the falcon griffon in the starter set is more in theme in my opinion.
I really wouldnt be surprised if come the High Elves being redone Eltharion the Grim gets similarly plasticised into such a multi purpose kit to give us a more suitable Elven Griffon although you can bet it'll be most likely bigger than the starter kit one.
The "flares" are a nod to real-world eagles, which have heavily feathered limbs that look a lot like that when striking.
I like the model
And to thouse who complain about it being to large, just take a look at the zombie dragon, especially its base.
Then be happy it's not largerAND be happy that your cannons can shoot the opposing cannons to smitherens!
same here. SPecially the old Karl Franz.
That reminds me i need to bail the dog so i can use its house for future dragon releases.
Last edited by Miredorf; 13-04-2012 at 14:12.
The zombie dragon is close to the right size for a dragon - I don't know why Elves insist on riding dragon whelps into battle
I love the Imperial Griffon - awesome model, probably my favorite griffon thus far. Excellent new version of Karl Franz, too. He no longer looks like a Brazilian Carnival performer in plate armor.
The only thing I don't like is the two-headed variant and the Amber Wizard rider (though a lot of that is due to me not liking Amber Wizards).
...and a little help comes in a little glass vial in a gun pressed against her anatomy...
You can always file off your nipples, it's easily done.
Do you realize guys that you have the mind of an orc/woman in what comes to size= quality? :P
Last edited by Miredorf; 13-04-2012 at 23:17.
Well not quite- if the new model was the same size as the old one it would still be a better model than it, just as the old one would still be a worse model if it was the size of the new one. The new sculpt is quite simply an improvement. The fact that it is of a suitably impressive size certainly adds to the appeal, but if it was a bad sculpt it doesn't matter how big it is (just like the current plastic giant is an inferior sculpt (to my eyes) than the older metal model. Likewise i think that Louen Leoncour's hippogryph is superior to the old deathclaw, despite being barely more than horse-sized (in fact that's part of the appeal- within it's 'order of magnitude' it's one seriously dangerous looking beastie). There's no denying the kind of vicarious thrill of seeing a suitably large model but execution is everything.Do you realize guys that you have the mind of an orc in what comes to size= quality? :P
I think those who dislike the new model should stop focusing on the mistaken belief that size is what makes the model appealing, not least because the argument is starting to have a slightly phallic subtext- it's only a matter of time before we get the first 'it's not the size that counts but what you do with it' argument put forward (in both cases i think the new model wins hands down anyway
).
Dr Death
It's not just size. It's how many guns, spikes and skulls it has on it.
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I just think its to big. I think a 1" less or a 1.5" less would be much better look at the black dragon its se post to be way bigger and its smaller and its one of the new models. Like the look of it its just to big. ( you need a bone crusher model from forge world to le a giant look like a giant next to that ). it would be better in the size if they would make it in between the old one and the new one. But they have to keep the sculpt do its a really nice sculpt.
In short nice model on its own. Bad size with comparison to the fluff and game.
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To be honest, while you can easily argue that dragons should be much bigger, griffon models have always been more or less consistent with the drawings and fluff and so on. Griffons were never massive monsters up till now.
There's only one pic were Deathclaw is that massive, and, well, no need to wonder where that new mini comes from:
http://www.games-workshop.com/images...mpire_1680.jpg
Now to wonder if wyverns and giants will be as big in the future
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that's exactly my point. heraldry is a stylized depiction of something, the model should look like more of a natural creature than a stylized emblem (hence why i said it would make a good statue or something. speaking of which i do like the griffon ornament on top of the sigmar-mobile)
Well i'd argue that this model doesn't make a griffon exactly a massive monster, in fact it's pretty consistent with the artwork and the expectation of something suitably mythic and gribbly. I actually think the aesthetic balance between rider and mount is about right with this model, whereas with the old one it did come across as a bit rider-heavy with the legs dangling down like a child on the back of a labrador. Making the griffon any bigger than it is now would probably be a mistake, but i really do think this model has it right- it looks like something impressive enough to scare the blue hell out of anyone facing it, and yet not so comically huge as to make mounting it impractical. As far as fluff goes i think they could probably make it bigger (even if it's not dragon-esque in size, it should require a serious hero to kill one, not just a slightly ambitious pest controller), but i appreciate that's probably just my opinion.
Dr Death
My other main gripe with the model, is that the rules don't really match it; it seems to me like it should be much more cumbersome than a High Elf griffon (perhaps Hover as opposed to Fly?) but with it being more noticeably tougher. I mean it is tougher, but given the now quite extreme difference between the new Empire model and the Island of Blood model (which suits High Elves well), I think that its profile fits as well as it should, as the difficulty in protecting it means it's still much easier to kill than a dragon.
Dont get me wrong, i like the griffon, also like the knight on top of it (eventhough it is NOT karl franz, just some guy wielding Gal-Maraz), just the size is clearly off for a, lets not forget it, ''miniatures game''.Well not quite- if the new model was the same size as the old one it would still be a better model than it, just as the old one would still be a worse model if it was the size of the new one. The new sculpt is quite simply an improvement. The fact that it is of a suitably impressive size certainly adds to the appeal, but if it was a bad sculpt it doesn't matter how big it is (just like the current plastic giant is an inferior sculpt (to my eyes) than the older metal model. Likewise i think that Louen Leoncour's hippogryph is superior to the old deathclaw, despite being barely more than horse-sized (in fact that's part of the appeal- within it's 'order of magnitude' it's one seriously dangerous looking beastie). There's no denying the kind of vicarious thrill of seeing a suitably large model but execution is everything.
I think those who dislike the new model should stop focusing on the mistaken belief that size is what makes the model appealing, not least because the argument is starting to have a slightly phallic subtext
Dr Death
About the size thing..I think i need to edit the sentence to add ''women'' in there...
It's only a miniatures game because for most people funding a historical reinactment society to dress up as wizards and beat the crap out of each other is an impractical expense.... plus you still wouldn't have griffons, you could theoretically use action figures, but the gaming table required would be too large. For a one-off model in a 28mm scaled wargame i think that you can get away with a model of this size. I mean it's hardly the biggest model out there- do people complain that the Luminark, the aracknarok, the zombie dragon or beyond into 40k and LotR the Baneblade, Land Raider or Mumak is too big? Yes they might be troublesome to transport but that's the only thing you can really hold against them.
I do agree that the Karl Franz model himself is a bit underwhelming. I don't mind his saddle (which some have compared to a sex swing) but he does look rather anonymous. Given the stunning rendition of him in Warhammer Online, i can only assume it was some technicality or licensing issue which prevented them from sculpting him according to that design (although i am pleased they've stuck more or less to the existing design of Ghal Maraz- the redesign of it for the frontispiece of the 6th edition rulebook really can't be topped). While i take the point of the person who said the old Franz looked a bit like a brazillian carnival dancer, i think the warhammer online design did tread the right balance to make him look impressive without becoming too flamboyant.
Dr Death
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