Impact hits vs. Warmachines

[the Nurge]

Ok, In close combat, you use the war machine's crew's toughness and armor saves. In shooting you use the war machine's toughness. Impact hits occur during the close combat phase, but are "unusual attacks", not "close combat attacks". Impact hits say to "distribute as shooting" (though, no one could argue that they actually ARE shooting attacks). I've always taken this to mean that they are distributed to rank and file troops, and may not pick characters out of units (unless the unit is less than 5 r&f troops). I would think that they would go against the crew, but I can see how someone could at least argue that they go against the machine's toughness. My question is, when a chariot charges a war machine, what T do you use to wound against?

For that matter, things such as fanatics and mangler squigs are also unusual attacks that are distributed as shooting. Again, my thought is that this only means that you distribute them in the same manner as shooting (not relevant against war machines in 8th ed.). I am assuming that these also wound against the crew's toughness, or am I wrong on this issue?

Thanks!

[theunwantedbeing]

Impact hits are close combat attacks, so hit the crews toughness.
Things like Fanatics and the like do not hit during combat, nor are they considered to be close combat attacks so they are resolved using the war machines toughness as if they were shooting.

Not an official answer but there isn't one untill GW bothers to FAQ it.

[warhammero]

Impact attack are a special close combat attack and just Is resolve like shotting attacks for the porpouse of the distribution wounds

[the Nurge]

Impact attack are a special close combat attack and just Is resolve like shotting attacks for the porpouse of the distribution wounds

So you're saying the impacts are vs. the crew's toughness?

[hamsterwheel]

So you're saying the impacts are vs. the crew's toughness?

Yes, that's what they're saying.

[the Nurge]

Impact attack are a special close combat attack and just Is resolve like shooting attacks for the purpose of the distribution wounds

The point that is up for debate is that against war machines, shooting attacks are distributed to the machine, itself. I don't really agree that this is what "distribute as shooting" means in this instance, but I don't know how to disprove it either.

In a team game the other day, my teammate charged a steamtank into the Cauldron of Blood. The DE player, being a devious DE player reasoned that since impact hits are distributed as shooting, all of the ST's impacts were resolved against the Cauldron's toughness of 10. Needless to say it wasn't killed, even though 11 S6 impact hits were done to it. I'd love to avoid things like this in the future. I like chariots, and hate war machines (that aren't mine) so this is sure to come up again...

[hamsterwheel]

The point that is up for debate is that against war machines, shooting attacks are distributed to the machine, itself. I don't really agree that this is what "distribute as shooting" means in this instance, but I don't know how to disprove it either.

In a team game the other day, my teammate charged a steamtank into the Cauldron of Blood. The DE player, being a devious DE player reasoned that since impact hits are distributed as shooting, all of the ST's impacts were resolved against the Cauldron's toughness of 10. Needless to say it wasn't killed, even though 11 S6 impact hits were done to it. I'd love to avoid things like this in the future. I like chariots, and hate war machines (that aren't mine) so this is sure to come up again...

There's nothing to debate.

Page 108 Rule book
"The toughness of the war machine is used against ranged attacks and the majority Toughness of the crew is used against close combat attacks"

Page 71 Rule book
"Finally, as Impact Hits are close combat attacks(albeit of an usual type) any unsaved wounds they inflict count towards combat resolution, just as any more conventional close combat attacks would."

[oldWitheredCorpse]

There's nothing to debate.

Page 108 Rule book
"The toughness of the war machine is used against ranged attacks and the majority Toughness of the crew is used against close combat attacks"

Page 71 Rule book
"Finally, as Impact Hits are close combat attacks(albeit of an usual type) any unsaved wounds they inflict count towards combat resolution, just as any more conventional close combat attacks would."

That the opposite is ruled even in tournaments strikes me as a weird detour from RAW. These two paragraphs together nail it.

[warhammero]

I agree with hammter its very clear

[Grimgormx]

Impact hits are close combat attacks, so hit the crews toughness.
Things like Fanatics and the like do not hit during combat, nor are they considered to be close combat attacks so they are resolved using the war machines toughness as if they were shooting.

Not an official answer but there isn't one untill GW bothers to FAQ it.

Have tried to find where in the rules says that special attacks are distributed as if being shoot, havent found in the BRB neither says anything in the OnG book.

Can you help me?

[warhammero]

The Charriots have the rule Charge Impact hits. Page 86
Go to the page 72 and read all the rule of Impact hits
And you Get all the anwers