40k measurement to real life.

[Liber]

Hmm, the reason 40k scale (and mechanics) is so wacky is because its based on Warhammer Fantasy.

I mean consider the max range for an ultra advanced gun is 24" (a few hundred feet tops irl) and that the round it fires has a similar impact of a melee attack. Makes no sense.

Then consider that in Fantasy a black powder rifle shoots 24" (in this case the range is realistic) and that it has a similar impact of getting stabbed with a sword...makes perfect sense.

40k was built over a foundation of a fantasy game along with rules simplification (everything moving/assaulting same speed 6") when you realize this the picture becomes more clear.

[AndrewGPaul]

Originally, the range of weapons was the "effective range", based upon the battlefield environment - smoke, dust, noise, distractions from incoming fire, etc. There were rules for firing at "full" range, which was ten times the quoted ranges.

Mind you, they're really chosen so the game fits on a 4' deep board. Heavy weapons can reach across most of the board. basic weapons can't quite reach from one deployment zone to the opposite one, so models need to move. Assault weapons have a shorter range, and pistols are nearly useless at range. Anything else is basically an after-the-fact justification for game balance reasons. The fact that they change over the years doesn't help. When I started, missile launchers had a range of 72", now it's 48".

As for movement distances, the rationale for getting rid of the M stat in 3rd edition was that no models are making a continuous flat-out run in their movement phase. Everyone is pausing to take cover, check for enemies, etc, so on average everyone moves at about the same rate.

[nedius]

I remember years ago reading an article in WD in which the designers were talking about the abstraction of table top scale. One of them commented something along the lines that he considered the scale to be sliding; that models close together were fighting second by second over a few meters, where as models far appart were acting over longer periods and distances, but this was in constant flux depending on which units were interacting and from where.

Which just re-enforced that this is a game, not a simulation.

I remember once trying to write my own wargame, and looking at the effective combat range of a WW1 rifle (the approx time period of my game). It said that around 300yards was the effective combat range. So if 1" = about 2m, even a basic rifle would have a range of 150". So if you were going to play on a table representing a true scale combat area you'd need a board 18ft by 12ft. And that's with WW1 rifles. This about a modern day assault rifle (lets say that is comparable to the effective combat range of a lasgun), increases that range to 550m (a table of around 30ft by 20ft).

I once thought about playing 40k using epic scale miniatures. I felt that then the scales would kind of work... Except for blasts and templates. Which is annyoing. It doesn't work whatever scale you use.

[MyNameDidntFit]

To look into the scale of 40k is to look into the heart of the warp: it is strongly advised that you don't do it and, if you do, nothing good will come of it.

[Latro_]

Just put a catachan guardsman next to a space marine... 40k scale should not be intellectualised to much.

[AndrewGPaul]

I remember once trying to write my own wargame, and looking at the effective combat range of a WW1 rifle (the approx time period of my game). It said that around 300yards was the effective combat range. So if 1" = about 2m, even a basic rifle would have a range of 150". So if you were going to play on a table representing a true scale combat area you'd need a board 18ft by 12ft. And that's with WW1 rifles. This about a modern day assault rifle (lets say that is comparable to the effective combat range of a lasgun), increases that range to 550m (a table of around 30ft by 20ft).

Of course, you can get round that issue by using denser terrain. Tomorrow's War, Force on Force and Star Wars Miniatures, funnily enough, don't have a maximum range for most weapons - you can shoot the entire length of the board with a rifle. That doesn't matter if there's enough terrain that you can't see clear across the board.

[Carlosophy]

I don't see the point of making 40k "scale". It's fun, that's enough to me. If I wanted to play a 'realistic' game with proper scale, I'd play hex & counter wargames.

Or paintball.

40k scale IRL doesn't work so well. There is no way you'd fit 10 marines in a Rhino for a start, and a Hunter-Killer Missile could reach the moon!

[Bookwrak]

HKs have unlimited range - they could hit the moon three galaxies over!

These threads are always weird because some people are so obsessed with assigning a concrete distance and time to a game that is very open about having none. It's a simple fact that if you want to use 28mm scale and include tanks and aircraft, if you are trying for 'realism' then you would need to be playing on an area bigger than your standard football pitch.

[MyNameDidntFit]

HKs have unlimited range - they could hit the moon three galaxies over!

Take out the heart of wherever the hell the Tyrannids are coming from with the ordinance from a Sentinel? I like it!

[Konovalev]

HK missiles need line of sight though. Tau seeker missiles on the other hand don't, just a markerlight hit on the target.

Cover the Tau homeworlds in missile batteries and send a stealth team to markerlight terra.

[Starchild]

Rick Priestley explained in Rogue Trader that 1" is roughly equal to 2 yards. However that was back in 1987 and the models are much larger now.

[Iron_Lord]

Rick Priestley explained in Rogue Trader that 1" is roughly equal to 2 yards. However that was back in 1987 and the models are much larger now.

Marines are- but are Imperial Guardsmen significantly larger than they used to be?