Flayed Ones

[DrunkTerminator]

Hi guys,

I really, really dont want to whine in this thread, but i don't think i'll make it.

Flayed Ones are my biggest 40k pet peeve at the moment. I have 12 of them and i waited for the day for them to get new/better stats in order to be a able to fit them in one of my lists and when the codex came out, turns out they became even worse! I wanna love Flayed Ones but they're so so bad in game terms that is impossible.

So has anyone found a use for them or is everybody as frustrated as i am?

[lantzkev]

There are very few things in any codex you can't find a use for...

[Grimmeth]

I'm not entirely sure what their rules/stats are at the moment, (I haven't looked through the 'Cron dex all that well) but it's entirely possible that, if they don't work too well now, they will in 6th.
Otherwise try using them and see if you can 'break the mold'. They may never be a top tier unit, but you might surprise a few people with them.

[DrunkTerminator]

There are very few things in any codex you can't find a use for...

Very few things. Of course. That does not mean that those units do not exist though. Stuff like mandrakes, chaos spawn and now flayed ones.

[Kijamon]

People say there's no use for blood claws all the time. Ever been assaulted by 10 with a wolf guard battle leader and a wolf priest? That's a lot of rerolled dice.

Don't buy the top list stuff, if you only read army lists online you're missing the fun of random units doing random things.

[xxRavenxx]

I personally love them.

A good number of attacks, infiltrate (or outflank, depending on who's going first).

They excel at taking down guardsmen, and can pretty much go 1:1 against marines, as though they'll lose in the end, they'll take most of a squad with them. If you thin an enemy unit out a little first, they can get through anything that isn't a terminator.

[Dreadlordpaul]

Very few things. Of course. That does not mean that those units do not exist though. Stuff like mandrakes, chaos spawn and now flayed ones.

Mandrakes actually aint that bad

[lantzkev]

Ah, outflank... near as I know crons don't have much else that do that, now, are they troops?

[insectum7]

Don't Flayed ones come in units of up to 20 now? That's pretty strong.

[Adra]

They are not troops but they are ok. They are just warriors with no gun and more attacks. Their not great, but they have a roll. If you outflank or infiltrate them then they can put some extra pressure on flank units and they cant really be ignored as they are just good enough to cause priblems. Plus they are pretty cheap and have the equivelant of a 3++.

[Archibald_TK]

Ah, outflank... near as I know crons don't have much else that do that, now, are they troops?

No, they are Elite, which is a shame as being able to replace warriors in some builds that want to get close from the enemy (Like some Imothek builds) and having an easier time than Warriors controlling objectives on the other side of the board would have been a saving grace.

Don't Flayed ones come in units of up to 20 now? That's pretty strong.

That unit would cost more than a Land Raider, for the same cost a bunch of other CC units in the game would either do their job more efficiently or be more versatile thanks either to their weapon loadout or by bringing a Vehicle.
Disregarding the comparison with other Codices and looking only at what they bring for their own army, they are in competition with other high numbers of attacks units like Wraiths/Scarabs that brings far more to the table.

Plus they are pretty cheap and have the equivelant of a 3++.

They are absolutely not cheap. Their save also does not work like that even if a 4+/5+RP feel like a 3++, but in CC not only vs attacks that ignore your armor save you are stuck with your RP rolls, but said rolls happen only after combat resolution while a 3++ would have allowed you to survive until your initiative phase so that you could add your attacks to the combat. They are the opposite of Warriors who benefit a lot from RP as they want to stay away and use it mainly vs shooting.

They are a CC unit that only shine vs units with low armor and low CC capacities while at the same time costing too much to give you any real bang for your bucks. Against anything else chances are you'll charge, strike last, take a beating, don't do enough wounds to compensate, lose combat and end up ran over without having a chance to use RP. They are a CC only unit that is poor at CC.

[Born Again]

Very few things. Of course. That does not mean that those units do not exist though. Stuff like mandrakes, chaos spawn and now flayed ones.

Never used the other two (don't play Necrons and Dark Eldar are still a WIP) but I have had some success with Chaos Spawn. No unit in any codex is unusable.

[Adra]

They are absolutely not cheap.

Meh they are pretty cheap within the codex.

Their save also does not work like that

Obviously. Look i dont think anyone thinks they are a great unit for killing everything, but not every circle can fit the square. I have seen them used to great effect by exploiting specific areas of an enemies army. Are they a must-take points efficient super unit? No. But they can kill stuff. I used them in one game as a mate loaned me some and was giving them tank hunter and furious charge with Zhandrak and they were doing pretty well and holding things up. They didnt sweep an enemy away but they gave me time to deal with elemements of the enemy before moving on. If you put negatives on eveything then so be it, but some units are still fun and handy without being amazing.

[TrueKin]

Mandrakes are far from unusable. The cost too much for what they usually bring to a force, but with a few successful little tricks they can be really nasty against some enemies. You just can't suicide run them into any enemy unit asap like many other assault units can be.

From what I've understood, Flayed Ones are statwise better than Mandrakes for their points cost. Of course, their low Initiative makes them weak against many enemies, but think about a strong unit assaulting some Ork horde after Infiltrating or outflanking. They get to attack, attack a lot, ripping a unit to shreds. Maybe not some of the stronger fighty units, but every shooter killed is less dakka against the "better" units like Immortals.

You shouldn't expect every unit to do well against any enemy, Necrons are not Grey Knights after all, even if Ward wrote the 'dex. Writing an allrounder tourney list? Fine, don't use the Flayed Ones since you might not encounter anything they can do well against. Know your enemy to be for example other Necrons or Orks? Try them, they might well surprise the enemy and give you an advantage, if not win the game for you.

[Cheeslord]

I have 10 flayed ones which I also would like to use. The times I have fielded them they have sucked, but I think thats a combination of poor planning (getting charged by blood angels) and bad luck (failing reserve rolls when trying to outflank).

Like all CC Necrons, they suffer massively from now being I2 down from 4. An extra attack in some ways makes up for that (not sure what it represents ... they have 2 weapons, and ... move slowly... I can understand Daemonettes having 3 attacks base for 2 weapons and being very fast and dextrous...). Also Flayed ones can't get Royal Court members to join them because they smell, so no hidden power weapon, no upgrades, no rending, limits their range of uses. They can't take on vehicles effectively, they can't take on TEQ effectively. Also no dedicated transport, so you are relying on deepstrike to get you to the action (unless they are used as a cheap countercharge unit to protect your shooters, which might be their real calling)

On the plus side, Flayed Ones occupy the Elites slot, while all the good stuff is in Fast Attack or Heavy Support, so if you've more points than slots they might be worth a go.

Also, they are the only Necrons who can still travel faster than light without using knock-off Webway Portals, according to the fluff. They just teleport around the galaxy at will through "pocket dimensions".

Something else that may be relevant:- if you take imhotek, your opponent may well reserve their entire army to avoid the lightening. Flayed ones infiltrate. OK since everyone lives in tanks its not such big deal but just once, you might get to keep your opponent off the field with a big wall of flayed ones.

Mark.

[Buddha777]

As the above poster mentioned Imhotek can actually boost flayed ones from gimmicky to useful for hunting down long range irritants such as long fangs or devastators. Their I2 means they will still likely loose but they will tie up non-dedicated CC units nicely and will drag a few down with them, especially with the blood scarab re-rolls.

Just don't expect great things from them.

[Bonzai]

I have at least tried them in a list. To my suprise, they actually did ok and made their points back. I ran an outflanking squad of 20. Part of that was luck (managed to get an assault when they came in, and has some isolated squads to target), but point for point they are decent. I would also tend towards the larger squads over smaller ones.

The main use for them is backfield disruption. I could see them have some use in an assault heavy list. Where the opponent is inclined to castle up in the opposite corner, they can be a decent distraction and tie a few things up.

Cheeselord is right though, they have their fair share of issues. For years I have been saying that they don't belong as an elite choice, but would make awesome troops. I can anly hope Forge World will come out with something. They also suffer from not being able to take a lord or cryptek. I would actually concider taking them if they could. It would give them a source of anti-tank, Inv saves, etc... that would turn them from an ok unit to a versatile one.

Believe me, when I first saw them I was even more negative than the OP. However after playing with them, I can honestly say that they aren't bad. Not great, but not bad either. The extra attack and changes from WBB to RP has made a bigger impact than I gave them credit for. Plus they are 5 points cheaper than they were. If they were troops, I would use them constantly.

[Bonzai]

I have at least tried them in a list. To my suprise, they actually did ok and made their points back. I ran an outflanking squad of 20. Part of that was luck (managed to get an assault when they came in, and has some isolated squads to target), but point for point they are decent. I would also tend towards the larger squads over smaller ones.

The main use for them is backfield disruption. I could see them have some use in an assault heavy list. Where the opponent is inclined to castle up in the opposite corner, they can be a decent distraction and tie a few things up.

Cheeselord is right though, they have their fair share of issues. For years I have been saying that they don't belong as an elite choice, but would make awesome troops. I can anly hope Forge World will come out with something. They also suffer from not being able to take a lord or cryptek. I would actually concider taking them if they could. It would give them a source of anti-tank, Inv saves, etc... that would turn them from an ok unit to a versatile one.

Believe me, when I first saw them I was even more negative than the OP. However after playing with them, I can honestly say that they aren't bad. Not great, but not bad either. The extra attack and changes from WBB to RP has made a bigger impact than I gave them credit for. Plus they are 5 points cheaper than they were. If they were troops, I would use them constantly.

[Ozendorph]

As a competitive, tournament-worthy unit? You're likely going to have a hard time fitting Flayed Ones in your list. At least they're not in a hotly-contested army section, I suppose. If I had the metal models I'd use them in larger casual games and Apoc.

[SideshowLucifer]

Quantity is a quality all its own. Flayed ones don't do well in small units. Try a unit of 15 and watch them chew through a unit. They are perfectly capable of making most units useless after the combat. There aren't a lot of ways for necrons to get a lot of close combat attacks, so they fill the niche. I do wish they had been troops however.