Warriors of Chaos summary

[Shadow_Steed]

In my opinion bows would hurt the uniqueness of the Chaos army.

On topic I think new dragon ogres are a certainty regarding the last MC-trend.

What do you gentlemen think of a new Shaggot? It would make sense in a way that Chaos would be receiving a huge monster, but since it is already in finecast it makes me wonder.

[Darnok]

Due to rampant wishlisting: off to WHF General.


Darnok [=I=]
The WarSeer Inquisition

[devilmixer]

TDG has put quite a few roumors in this threat so not just a wishlist ;-)

[MyNameDidntFit]

In my opinion bows would hurt the uniqueness of the Chaos army.

Agreed. WoC aren't about killing from a distance--even our one ranged unit occasionally gets into the melee bloodshed!

[lukas721]

I think WoC need something maybe other than 2-3 Hell Cannons to force opponent not to wait and shoot to us because he won't get hurt, but maybe think about going forward... or GW will give us more anti-shooting protection and I will be fine with it too, but It will still make to easy for no-brainer armies in WoC book, I hope there will be more strategy than just If we come you are dead, but back to what I wanted to ask, do anyone know If there will be Valkia release with this edition with book or any wave of minis, coz I want her for fluff and all fun stuff and saw some good conversions and know I wont make as good as I would like and will just spend money and will be mad on myself, so If any have any news (good or bad) please share it :P

[logan054]

Valkia? who wants that silly thing in a chaos army, bring back Arbaal, just give him a jugger

[lukas721]

Logan I'm more fun gamer than tournament player (mostly coz none of those in area and kids+wife make not much possibility to travel... sad but true), just love her for fluff and fun aspect, yea I would like her being redone, but with all rumours about table of gods I think she will be redone nevertheless I just want her model to be made and even, If GW make her crap I would buy her for 150% if they release her, flying bloody maiden of destruction... just can't pass it :P

[logan054]

Whats tournament player have to do with it? Arbaal had god awful rules, I personally like the special characters from the l4th/5th ed, they had much better fluff than the junk we have in the current book, Arbaal was just cool, running round on a giant flesh hound killing (well trying too lol) character after character and then getting turned into a chaos spawn for running away, so much more fun than Miss "let's abuse the eotg table!" Beside she is more of a blue peter style chaos lord

[lukas721]

Yea but I started playing from 7th edition and WoC wasn't my first choice.. not even second (but are my main now :P) so don't know how much fun this was before 7th.
"let's abuse the eotg table!" lol yea pretty much, but for me it's something more than this, I don't use lots of chosen and hate idea of chosenstar, so I play overpriced model (I just proxy her now), but love her as idea. There is lots of fun stuff but mostly I hope WoC will get more strategy in Army Book not just be unstoppable Road Roller which eat things and never die... but we will see, I hope sooner than later :P

[eleveninches]

id love to see van horstmaan back, maybe replace galruch as he is rubbish, could even have van horstmaan with a version of his speculum

probably have some monstrous cav, maybe juggy riders/ beast of nurgle riders/ fiend riders / disc riders

reduce point maurauders

change the marks. maybe give nurgle +1 T, slaanesh +WS and immune to fear and terror, Khorne frenzy, tzeentch either +1 ward save or bound spell flickering fire on each tzeentch unit

[warplock]

Did you just say reduce points of marauders?! Theyre already like the best value troops in the game, aren't they?

[lukas721]

Warplock they are not the best value troops in the game, but they do the biggest damage per point cost in the game which is still insane, but take MoK from them and GW and they will be just regular tarpit infantry. Honestly I hope GW will stay to much conversions done :P

[logan054]

Yea but I started playing from 7th edition and WoC wasn't my first choice.. not even second (but are my main now :P) so don't know how much fun this was before 7th.
"let's abuse the eotg table!" lol yea pretty much, but for me it's something more than this, I don't use lots of chosen and hate idea of chosenstar, so I play overpriced model (I just proxy her now), but love her as idea. There is lots of fun stuff but mostly I hope WoC will get more strategy in Army Book not just be unstoppable Road Roller which eat things and never die... but we will see, I hope sooner than later :P

pick yourself up a copy of champions of chaos on ebay the older characters are far more interesting, I have always been a Khorne collector but I did love Valnir the Reaper, kinda like a big scary zombie hero, sadly you get rubbish like the nurgle sorcerer stinky pants now Your not alone, I think all of us want some more strategy in the book, its a shame they took away the beast herds and daemons, just made the army so much more interesting to use oh well, guess I can always wipe out the dark elves for now....

[Satan]

pick yourself up a copy of champions of chaos on ebay the older characters are far more interesting, I have always been a Khorne collector but I did love Valnir the Reaper, kinda like a big scary zombie hero, sadly you get rubbish like the nurgle sorcerer stinky pants now Your not alone, I think all of us want some more strategy in the book, its a shame they took away the beast herds and daemons, just made the army so much more interesting to use oh well, guess I can always wipe out the dark elves for now....

I've never been able to wrap my head around it. Splitting daemons/beastmen and warriors was probably the worst thing they could do for sales?

[javgoro]

I've never been able to wrap my head around it. Splitting daemons/beastmen and warriors was probably the worst thing they could do for sales?

No, probably not. They now have three times the releases they would have had otherwise, and while someone might not like daemons or mortals, they may like beastmen (for example). If you had, say, 100 potential buyers of hordes as a whole, and now you have 40 people buying each of the individual armies, you still come out 20 customers on top by splitting them. I have no data to support this, of course, it's just castles in the air, but it shows how the split might not have been detrimental to sales at all.

[Morkash]

And as it seems, every reasonable competitive player started either a DE or a DoC army in 7th edition. I do not know how well/bad Daemons sell, but at least every second tournament player has an army of them sitting around at home so maybe the competitive wing makes a small difference here.

The split is a critical topic, but I think nowadays that it was not that bad. All three armybooks are nice and deserve their place, even if they widely range in quality and potential.

[Satan]

No, probably not. They now have three times the releases they would have had otherwise, and while someone might not like daemons or mortals, they may like beastmen (for example). If you had, say, 100 potential buyers of hordes as a whole, and now you have 40 people buying each of the individual armies, you still come out 20 customers on top by splitting them. I have no data to support this, of course, it's just castles in the air, but it shows how the split might not have been detrimental to sales at all.

I see the reasoning. But it makes no sense because there is now 0% incentive for a beasts player to buy anything chaotic which is not directly included in their book unless they intend to start a new army. Just like when they cut several monsters from the beasts book.

[javgoro]

I see the reasoning. But it makes no sense because there is now 0% incentive for a beasts player to buy anything chaotic which is not directly included in their book unless they intend to start a new army. Just like when they cut several monsters from the beasts book.

That's not what I meant, mate. I just mean that if you have 40 players interested in each book (regardless of whether they bought hordes of chaos as a whole before or not), and previously you had 100 hordes players, you still have 20 more players buying your stuff. Given that they have enough manpower to get stuff out for all three armies, and that each is a complete army, the "not directly included in their book" is a non-issue. You have X releases for hordes, then you turn that into X releases for WoC, X for Beasts, X for DoC. If X releases turn into Y sells for Hordes, but into Y/2 for each individual book, you still sell more than you used to. And this is all leaving aside the fact that if the split had been a financial mistake (which I doubt it), we would probably see the three armies being recombined into one, and so far there is no indication that they want to do so.

[Doommasters]

Valkia? who wants that silly thing in a chaos army, bring back Arbaal, just give him a jugger

Valkia is one of my favourites from the special section, my only issue is that combat lords are just not in the same ballpark as lvl 4's

If these changes were made I would build a WoC army;

1) Chaos Lords (combat) have a more tactical role in the army i.e. feel more like a general or grand master from the grey knights
2) Plastic kits for Chosen Warriors
3) Warshrine Kit
4) Re work of the Eye of the Gods to make it more fun and a bigger part of the army without being stupid with chosen
5) Chosen Knights
6) Dragon Ogres and Shaggoths re-work
7) More distinctive and balanced marks, incentives to take mono god armies
8) More tactical options than point and click, the army is boring and far too basic for my taste. I want to have to think and have options WoC currently require no thought outside of deployment.
9) Balanced list of chaos gifts that add character to the army
10) Most important one. Daemon princes that are actually worth their points, honestly DP's are probably the worst characters in the game

[javgoro]

1) Chaos Lords (combat) have a more tactical role in the army i.e. feel more like a general or grand master from the grey knights

This is very likely, judging by what they did with combat lords for Empire, and IIRC the other 8th edition armies. If lords went down in points to allow for a lord + lvl 4 in the same 2500- army, it would be great.

2) Plastic kits for Chosen Warriors

Very unlikely to get this, though Chosen should be easy to make with the rumoured forsaken kit. Perhaps that kit can double up and work for Chosen/Forsaken?

3) Warshrine Kit

This seems to be in the cards, judging by the rumours.

4) Re work of the Eye of the Gods to make it more fun and a bigger part of the army without being stupid with chosen

Agreed. EotG triggering when you kill a champion would make it more common. Not allowing for infinite rerolls would also go a long way to make it less silly.

5) Chosen Knights

In monstrous, marked mounts (a man can dream, right?).

6) Dragon Ogres and Shaggoths re-work

Rules-wise or model-wise? Model-wise seems a given. As far as rules go, the Shaggoth is overcosted, and the Drogres are worse than trolls for their niche, but still an all right option.

7) More distinctive and balanced marks, incentives to take mono god armies

This would be great, but I doubt weŽll see it. The current trend is to make multi-mark armies the norm.

8) More tactical options than point and click, the army is boring and far too basic for my taste. I want to have to think and have options WoC currently require no thought outside of deployment.

Like chaos furies, for example...

9) Balanced list of chaos gifts that add character to the army

We'll probably see the gift list shortened, sadly.

10) Most important one. Daemon princes that are actually worth their points, honestly DP's are probably the worst characters in the game

I expect to see a points reduction to them, if only because they're clearly overcosted now.