Warriors of Chaos summary

[MyNameDidntFit]

Valkia is one of my favourites from the special section, my only issue is that combat lords are just not in the same ballpark as lvl 4's

I very rarely run a Lvl 4, to be honest. I find my Lord to be more fun and perfectly viable (though Lvl 4's are inarguably more effective by points).

[BigbyWolf]

This is very likely, judging by what they did with combat lords for Empire, and IIRC the other 8th edition armies. If lords went down in points to allow for a lord + lvl 4 in the same 2500- army, it would be great.

As far as I'm aware, you can currently.

Taking one of each would leave you with 150 points to kit them out at that point level.

I very rarely run a Lvl 4, to be honest. I find my Lord to be more fun and perfectly viable (though Lvl 4's are inarguably more effective by points).

Agreed, I'm old-school Warhams...I find it very hard to make an army that isn't led by a combat Lord.

[javgoro]

As far as I'm aware, you can currently.

Taking one of each would leave you with 150 points to kit them out at that point level.

You can, but you have to keep them very low on gear and they become a large drain on your points allotment, for very little gain compared to a LVL4 + exalted hero. A combat lord right now does not offer enough to justify its cost compared to a sorc lord, sadly. My wording wasn't the best, though. I should have said "allow for a lord + lvl 4 in the same 2500- army in an effective way".

[MyNameDidntFit]

Agreed, I'm old-school Warhams...I find it very hard to make an army that isn't led by a combat Lord.

Leading an army with a Sorcerer just feels wrong to me. Besides, my Archaon on Foot model that is my Chaos Lord is painted too deliciously by a friend of mine who does commissions to ever even contemplate not taking him

[Snake1311]

You can, but you have to keep them very low on gear and they become a large drain on your points allotment, for very little gain compared to a LVL4 + exalted hero. A combat lord right now does not offer enough to justify its cost compared to a sorc lord, sadly. My wording wasn't the best, though. I should have said "allow for a lord + lvl 4 in the same 2500- army in an effective way".

Actually a defensively decked out tzeentch combat lord on disk is quickly becoming a staple in WoC lists. Admitedly, that is in comped environments.

[theDarkGeneral]

With all the cool large scale multi-kits that GW is releasing, I can see the Shaggoth going to a plastic kit and perhaps doubling (multi-kit) as another large monster option???

Either way, I much prefer the plastics to the finecast stuff. The weapons don't "sag" in the heat, and they're much easier to model/work with. My son is having a blast with his few boxes of Demi-gryph Knights, so I eagerly await some Chaos-like equivalents!!!

[Mr. Tyrant]

I was at my local GW. Which is where i am employed and I noticed a strange model, it ressembled a strange girl thing " ressembled the "female" in dantes inferno" I dont know if this is anything important but it made me think of slaanesh...

[Tymell]

Do you mean the Lust boss in the Dante's Inferno game? Can you be more specific (size, features, etc)?

Dechala and the Forge World Keeper of Secrets do come to mind if it is that boss you're referring to.

[Mr. Tyrant]

Something like that

[Petey]

So far, a lot of the things we saw in Tamurkhan, throne of chaos have proven to come true. I'm talking about how engineers get to use look out sir near artillery, they aren't removed if the warmachine dies of a missfire, vaguely how the landship works is similar to how the steam tank works.

Given that, I wonder how much of the Tamurkhan/chaos forces will look like WoC. I think that might be a good place to start looking

[Doommasters]

Well I just hope that they make the internal balance between the Chaos Lord and Sorc Lord a little closer and the Chaos Lord gets more character as a general.

[Sir_Glonojad]

Generally speaking the balance between Wizard and Warrior Lords is a problem in most armies; if both are present on a field it is only when points allow to have both - so I guess the problem should be solved on the Game-, not Army Level.

On the other hand, the Sorcerer Lord is a fighter more formidable than any other wizard lord in the game (save, perhaps, dragon-mounted elves - or their mounts to be precise) so this actually strengthens the problem. I vaguely remember however that, in one of the previous editions, one could make a wizard from the normal lord - I believe a Tzeentch Lord could buy wizard levels. While this wouldn't really be a complete solution, it would make the warrior lord more attractive.

[Doommasters]

Generally speaking the balance between Wizard and Warrior Lords is a problem in most armies; if both are present on a field it is only when points allow to have both - so I guess the problem should be solved on the Game-, not Army Level.

On the other hand, the Sorcerer Lord is a fighter more formidable than any other wizard lord in the game (save, perhaps, dragon-mounted elves - or their mounts to be precise) so this actually strengthens the problem. I vaguely remember however that, in one of the previous editions, one could make a wizard from the normal lord - I believe a Tzeentch Lord could buy wizard levels. While this wouldn't really be a complete solution, it would make the warrior lord more attractive.

Vampire counts managed to make it very viable to run a lvl4 and combat character without changing the 'rules' of the wider game. Not correcting such and obvious internal balance issue with the book in the 8th edition version would be a travesty! Even if you can't run both making the chaos lord a little more attractive as a 'general' would be a nice change (ld and slightly better combat stats is boring and not enough, not asking for him to be able to kill 10 guys a turn but rather something fluffy and general like).

[Gradek]

Vampire counts managed to make it very viable to run a lvl4 and combat character without changing the 'rules' of the wider game. Not correcting such and obvious internal balance issue with the book in the 8th edition version would be a travesty! Even if you can't run both making the chaos lord a little more attractive as a 'general' would be a nice change (ld and slightly better combat stats is boring and not enough, not asking for him to be able to kill 10 guys a turn but rather something fluffy and general like).

See, I think our Lord should be able to kill like 10 guys a turn. That is what a fluffy chaos lord is after all. The problem is going to essentially come down to: can GW buff the Lord enough to make up for the potential loss of a level 4 with shadow. If they drop our access to shadow (I surely hope not), that alone would likely make our lord more viable.

[Doommasters]

See, I think our Lord should be able to kill like 10 guys a turn. That is what a fluffy chaos lord is after all. The problem is going to essentially come down to: can GW buff the Lord enough to make up for the potential loss of a level 4 with shadow. If they drop our access to shadow (I surely hope not), that alone would likely make our lord more viable.

I was thinking something a little different as Chaos units are pretty killy already. A combat lord could specialize at challenging tough characters and monsters, working close with a 'special' EoG table that provides tactical bonuses by inspiring his men when he slaughters heroes and monsters.

Could be simple things that don't brake the game but provide a unique bonus; for example giving a unit additional movement within x " in the next movement phase, or making a unit within x " unbreakable for the combat phase etc. You would have to think hard and balance them but proving unique and dynamic benefits that enriches the tactics of the army would be amazing.

[RanaldLoec]

They could do an empire and give him a new rule and bump his points up.

[Doommasters]

They could do an empire and give him a new rule and bump his points up.

All for new rules that increase the tactical ability for an army, also means the replay value is going to go up. Simply have a tough as nails lord that can take the crown of command and hold up a unit for most of the game is pretty broing and there is a lack of vision there.

LvL 4 Wizards expecially chaos ones have so many tactical options. They have stats similar to most characters and can take a wide variety of Magic lores all of which impact how your army is played. You can go offensive in combat, defensive and/or tool up for magic defense. You get +4 to cast and dispel which is a huge benefit in itself, you can fly and take out warchanies when needed to and even kill skirmishers with little trouble.

The combat lord just does not have this tactical flexibilty and provides statistically less to the army, hence why internal balance needs to be addressed. This is not saying you have to go crazy and break them, no it simply means you have to increase the tactical flexibility and balance them against what the Sorc lord offers (maybe the sorc needs to be tonned down IDK).

Having a combat general that influenced troops through acts of braverly and pure brutality would be amazing. Not simply killing X models to add X CR, this has been done and it lacks vision for chaos becasue the basic troops allready kill most infantry without trouble.