What grinds your gear?

[Maxis Lithium]

You know what Grind my Gears? Lord Commissars just handing out stealth to 50 man platoons. I play IG. I really enjoy my IG, and I have been playing them since 2nd ed. I have a Imbram Guant model who has, in the pat, been used as a Lord Commissar. From what I have read on the web, and I looked back at the FAQ to confirm this, a Lord Commissar can give a whole platoon Stealth (and thus +1 cover save) because HE has an awesome cloak.
I would be fine with this if some how it was a skill that the commissar had that allowed him to instruct the platoon in the ways of stealth, but in this case it's just because he has a sweet cloak he absconded with from the Lord of the Rings kits.

What silly silly rules really bring you out o the game and just urk your suspension of disbelief?

[lantzkev]

People who use the term "grind my gears"

That and that storm shields don't cost more.

[Lord Damocles]

I would be fine with this if some how it was a skill that the commissar had that allowed him to instruct the platoon in the ways of stealth, but in this case it's just because he has a sweet cloak he absconded with from the Lord of the Rings kits.

Perhaps he got the cloak in recognition of his hardcore stealth skills; so it's not that the cloak itself is hiding the platoon.

Like how Terminator Honours are awarded to badasses. Being a badass grants an extra attack, not the little badge they carry around.

---

People who use the term "grind my gears"

You'll like these then:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...ighlight=gears
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...ighlight=gears

[t-tauri]

You'll like these then:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...ighlight=gears
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...ighlight=gears

Thread closed. Already posted and this is now a rules debate.

[Spartan601]

You know what Grind my Gears? Lord Commissars just handing out stealth to 50 man platoons. I play IG. I really enjoy my IG, and I have been playing them since 2nd ed. I have a Imbram Guant model who has, in the pat, been used as a Lord Commissar. From what I have read on the web, and I looked back at the FAQ to confirm this, a Lord Commissar can give a whole platoon Stealth (and thus +1 cover save) because HE has an awesome cloak.
I would be fine with this if some how it was a skill that the commissar had that allowed him to instruct the platoon in the ways of stealth, but in this case it's just because he has a sweet cloak he absconded with from the Lord of the Rings kits.

What silly silly rules really bring you out o the game and just urk your suspension of disbelief?

I think you will find that the Stealth special rule is not conferred from Independent Character to squad. P.48 BRB Says that "Unless specified in the rule itself...the character's special rules are not conferred upon the unit." Also, P.76 Stealth special rule says "All of the unit's cover saves are improved..." The Independent Character is not part of the unit, he is attached to the unit.

I'm also building up a Guard army, and i was nothing but pleased to hear this. Now if we can just get the Plasmacutioner to actually be one of the rarest tanks in the Imperium, like it says, rather than each Regiment seemingly having 9 of them, we'll be making some real progress.

[Iron_Lord]

I think it's the FAQ section that discusses what happens when some of the models in the unit have Stealth but others don't, that's being used here.

Q: If only some of the models in a unit have the Stealth special rule, does the whole unit benefit from the +1 cover save? (p76)
A: Yes. In effect the ones with the Stealth special rule ensure their colleagues also find good places to hide.

By joining the unit, he becomes "one of the models in the unit"- thus, even though the other models don't have the Stealth rule, they still benefit.

The BRB also lists special rules that are lost when character joins unit without it, or unit joins character without it- by asterisking them- and Stealth doesn't have an asterisk.

[Spartan601]

The Independent Character section overrides that by saying "Unless specified in the rule itself...the character's special rules are not conferred upon the unit." The Independent Character is attached to the unit, he is not a unit member. For clarification, i will post the e-mail i sent to the FAQ team querying this rule:

"Hello, this query came up in a recent game.

An Imperial Guard Lord Commissar with a camo-cloak has the Stealth special rule. If he joins a unit, does he confer the benefits to the squad?

p. 48 40K BRB
Independent Characters
"Unless specified in the rule itself, the character's special rules are not conferred upon the unit."

p. 76 BRB
Stealth USR
"All of the unit's cover saves are improved by +1"

p.7 40k BRB FAQ
Stealth USR
"If only some of the models in the unit have the Stealth special rule does the whole unit benefit from the +1 cover save?"
"Yes, in effect the models with the rule ensure their colleagues also find good places to hide."

The conflict between the first and third points are points of confusion. Does the Lord Commissar count as part of the unit?
Also, if the Lord Commissar is not part of the unit, the unit does not gain the special rule according to point one, however point 3 implies they still receive the benefit from said rule?"

The Response

Thanks for the email about the Stealth special rule. In this case, the independent character counts as a separate unit for the purpose of the Stealth rule in the game and do no confer this rule on to the squad they join. This is due to the first rule overriding the Third you listed, the Third rule is in reference to units that are made up of models with stealth and those that do not and are not Independent characters. Hope that this helps and if you have any other questions please contact us again.

The point about losing Stealth is correct. The Lord Commisar does not lose the Stealth rule, but neither does he convey it to the squad.

[Iron_Lord]

The Independent Character section overrides that by saying "Unless specified in the rule itself...the character's special rules are not conferred upon the unit." The Independent Character is attached to the unit, he is not a unit member. For clarification, i will post the e-mail i sent to the FAQ team querying this rule:

Thanks for the email about the Stealth special rule. In this case, the independent character counts as a separate unit for the purpose of the Stealth rule in the game and do no confer this rule on to the squad they join. This is due to the first rule overriding the Third you listed, the Third rule is in reference to units that are made up of models with stealth and those that do not and are not Independent characters. Hope that this helps and if you have any other questions please contact us again.

The point about losing Stealth is correct. The Lord Commisar does not lose the Stealth rule, but neither does he convey it to the squad.

What about the reverse, when the character joins the unit with the rule?

An Autarch in a ranger squad?

calling him "not one of the models in the unit" when he is, in fact "in" it, seems to me like stretching things.

[Spartan601]

He does not gain the rule, because the Independent Character section says the squad's rules are not conveyed to him unless specifically mentioned, such as the Stubborn special rule. The FAQ was designed to clarify things like Scout Sergeant Telion conferring Stealth upon his unit, even if they don't have camo-cloaks. He is a part of the unit, because he is an upgrade character.

[TheDoctor]

From a hobby point of veiw- people trying to tell me how to pronounce Belial and Alaitoc. I like my way just fine tank you very much.

From the rules perpective- weapon skill not modifying to hits against vehicles. My WS10 Avatar of Khaine (and my friend's bloodthirster) have as good a chance to hit a moving vehicle as an unmodified human?

[samiens]

The vehicle rules. The rules for infantry etc are great an immersive, then you get vehicles that:

A) Can't reverse
B) can only move in straight lines
C) Are bizarrely indestructible
D) have little to no effect on guys inside or outside when they explode
E) Tank shock in a way that make very little sense (you charged be from the side so I can't pivt towards you- now its physically impossible for me to try and drive over you...)

Which would all be ok, except vehicles are super cheap and, with a few exceptions, vital for competitive play- so they're *******' everywhere!
Sent from my 7 Mozart using Board Express

[zoggin-eck]

Has to be said:

People who make this same thread over and over, even with the same title!