Psi-ammo abd Strength

[Voloch]

What are peoples takes on this as the FAQ doesn't mention this:

does the "... count the Strength of its shots a being one point higher ..." as mean that:

The weapon actually becomes a weapon with one S higher than normal

OR

that it really only "counts as", which means it is still its original S but effectively counts as one S higher? Thus not eliminating a StormBolter from being a defensive weapon.

[lantzkev]

faq says it no longer counts as defensive

[TheGreatDalmuti]

I think the necron FAQ established that "counts as" must be read as "is" anyway. You can argue that "it is just for that instanse, but the argument lost some weight anyway.

[lantzkev]

Although prior to the FAQ I would not have batted a eye at someone saying they counted as defensive.

[Voloch]

The FAQ .... GK FAQ? coz I haven't found it in there. You referring to the necron FAQ like Dalmuti says?

[Spetulhu]

The FAQ .... GK FAQ? coz I haven't found it in there. You referring to the necron FAQ like Dalmuti says?

GK FAQ:
Q: Do you take into account the strength increase from
the psybolt and psyflame ammunition vehicle upgrades
when working out if a weapon is a defensive weapon
or not? If a vehicle has either of these upgrades, must
you use them? (p62)
A: Yes to both questions.

[Empirespy]

If the wording is, 'it counts as', is it like biker toughness, so an autocannon can only instakill T3, as opposed to T4?
Sort of pulling at strings here...

[lantzkev]

autocannon kills t4.

[DoctorTom]

But not instakills T4, since it's only a S7.

[lantzkev]

But not instakills T4, since it's only a S7.

we're talking about when it's using psybolt ammo, and it's a str 8 hit at that point. Which gibs anything toughness 4 without eternal warrior.

[DoctorTom]

we're talking about when it's using psybolt ammo, and it's a str 8 hit at that point. Which gibs anything toughness 4 without eternal warrior.

You might be, but Empirespy and I weren't. He was referring purely to whether the toughness from a bike adds to the toughness for an ID roll.

[lantzkev]

autocannon kills t4.

But not instakills T4, since it's only a S7.

You have a funny way of talking about biker toughness....

as for if it can cause instant death on a biker that's say Toughness 4(5) read page 53... it's pretty clear it dies instantly.

[DoctorTom]

Why do I have a funny way of talking about biker toughness? I picked up immediately on what Empirespy was saying, you're the one who didn't.

He's probably thinking more of Eldar or Dark Eldar jetbikes which use the bike rules for toughness, given the mention of toughness 3 vs 4.

[lantzkev]

You referenced the str of the autocannon that I just talked about! Regardless of it's a toughness 3 or toughness 4 model at it's base it'll die to the str 8 autocannon.

[DoctorTom]

You referenced the str of the autocannon that I just talked about! Regardless of it's a toughness 3 or toughness 4 model at it's base it'll die to the str 8 autocannon.

He wasn't talking about psi-enhanced ammo in his statement! He was bringing up biker toughness as a separate counts as type thing! A normal autocannon with strength 7 doesn't instakill T4. It should have been obvious from his post he wasn't talking about autocannons with psybolts, with the specific mention of strengths and toughnesses. Is it really that hard to grasp?

[lantzkev]

except the thing is it's not the same it's not str 7(8) it's not obvious what you're talking about when you're mentioning autocannons.

His post was talking about autocannons with psybolts as he was asking if it would insta kill only t3.

the str of the attack is 8, not 7(8) and not 7. He is talking about pysbolt ammo, you're not.

[Voloch]

GK FAQ:
Q: Do you take into account the strength increase from
the psybolt and psyflame ammunition vehicle upgrades
when working out if a weapon is a defensive weapon
or not? If a vehicle has either of these upgrades, must
you use them? (p62)
A: Yes to both questions.

You know when you look for something you can stare directly at it and not see it? I must have read the FAQ dusins of times and still I overlooked it. Now I found it

Thanks y'all

[Sami]

Biker toughness is a special exception that is explained explicitly in the rules (i.e. you don't get to use the +1T when working out if you suffer instant death). Besides that, anything that increases/decreases strength and toughness will also be used when working out instant death, unless otherwise stated.

[Empirespy]

I obviously didn't make it clear enough, I was wondering whether psibolts works like S7(8), for the purposes of instant death, like lantzkev said, because the wording was count as 1 point of strength higher. I didn't mention psibolts as I posted in a thread about them...
I didn't think it would work like that, I was just trying to have a chance of not losing my XV8 Shas'o first turn every game, as I'm fed up of losing to GK...

[lantzkev]

yeah, hate to break it to you, but they will indead instagib em.