Grenades Question

[Rhana Dandra]

If one charcter (upgraded, independent or special) has grenades for assault etc. and is in/joins a unit, does the entire unit benefit from the bonus(es) when assaulting etc.?

[wyglif]

My brother ran into this problem with his Emperor's Champion. The answer was "no". The wording in the rules, as I recall, was that the model with the grenade benefits - no mention of the unit also benefiting.

[Tethylis]

For basic assault/defensive grenades the answer would be no.

For specialist GK grenades (rad/psyk-out/psychotroke) however the answer is yes.

[lantzkev]

how so lol, read the grenades the only grenade I've seen that falls under the "affects only the bearer" is the melta/haywire/etc and frag, defensive grenades state the opponent doesn't get their assault bonus

[Reece]

It pretty much works like:

Grenades won't effect a joined unit, but they'll still effect the enemy unit.

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[DoctorTom]

how so lol, read the grenades the only grenade I've seen that falls under the "affects only the bearer" is the melta/haywire/etc and frag, defensive grenades state the opponent doesn't get their assault bonus

Of course you get into the quandry of when only an IC joined to the unit has defensive grenades. You're supposed to to treat the IC as a separate unit, so technically only models assaulting the IC would be affected, not ones affecting the rest of the unit. It seems most of the time, though, people will treat them as being one unit for purposes of grenades.

[Seattledv8]

Well strictly speaking the defense grenades trigger at the start of an assault.(pg 36)
At that point the IC is still part of the unit as he is treated as a seperate unit only when 'the attacks are resolved' (pg.49)
The timing works for me.

[Sami]

If one charcter (upgraded, independent or special) has grenades for assault etc. and is in/joins a unit, does the entire unit benefit from the bonus(es) when assaulting etc.?

For assault grenades, no. To support this, the Dark Eldar have an upgrade (Phantasm Grenade Launcher) which is only taken by a single model in the unit, but has wording that explicitly grants assault and defensive grenades to the whole unit. If one model having the grenades automatically gave the benefits to the whole unit, this upgrade wouldn't require the extra wording to make it work like that.

[wyvirn]

Not necessarily true, Codex Tyranids say that models in synapse are fearless and automatically rally, even though that automatically happens next turn because of fearless' wording.

[Reivax26]

I just wish that there was a limit on the number of Grenades that people could use in one turn. One character for the Grey Knights shouldn't be able to pull the pins on 4 different grenades as he is charging into close combat and still get to swing in close combat. Then again Grey Knights were made to be over powered so what does it matter.

[Steinhardt]

So with all the psychic might of the grey knights he can't foreseeably use 4 fingers at once?

[ErictheGreen]

yay, another thread descending into grey knight bashing. learn to beat them, christ.

if a model does not come armed with grenades on its profile, it does not get the benefit of those grenades. the only grenades on an IC that a whole squad would benefit from are ones which affect the enemy.

For example:
- Frag grenades affect you. Instead of striking at I1 for charging through terrain, you strike in initiative order. Therefore, in a DCA unit with an inquisitor attached charging into cover, only the inquisitor strikes at initiative. The DCA strike last.
- Krak grenades affect you. They change your close combat attacks. if you don't have em, no S6 for you.
- Defensive grenades affect the enemy. They lose an attack in CC to a minimum of 1. An IC would give this bonus to his squad.
- Rad grenades affect the enemy. They are -1T
- Psychotroke grenades affect the enemy. They mess with their heads.

simple enough?

Stienhart, screw psychic might, the space monkey rigged up a single pin system (probably with judicious use of gaffer tape) to make all the grenades stick together.

[wyvirn]

yay, another thread descending into grey knight bashing. learn to beat them, christ.

I would like to propose Wyvirn's Law: As the time a thread remains active approaches infinity, the more likely is will turn into a whinefest about how overpowered Grey Knights are, or how underpowered the Tyranid codex is. Often the former and leading into the latter.

[wilsongrahams]

There is a case in the Ork codex where Flash Gitz do not have stikkbombs but Badrukk does, and he is not an independent character but part of the unit - how would this be resolved? Technically he is simply a differently armed model in the same unit.

[Reivax26]

This could all be fixed if they would simply put into the rules that a unit or model is only allowed to use 1 damn grenade at a time. The Grey Knight comment came out because I watched an army of theirs table a friend of mine with one of generic netlists and it just made me want to puke.

[blurrymadness]

There is a case in the Ork codex where Flash Gitz do not have stikkbombs but Badrukk does, and he is not an independent character but part of the unit - how would this be resolved? Technically he is simply a differently armed model in the same unit.

Same idea; Badrukk strikes at init, gits don't.

Does anyone bother to read teh associated rule for this!? It specifically says "models" with frag grenades; there are no odd rules quandries for that. Defensive grenades are trickier, as are Blight Grenades (mildly different wording) but frags are easy and clear as day. Models with, Models with, MODELS WITH!
*has heart attack and dies*

[ErictheGreen]

This could all be fixed if they would simply put into the rules that a unit or model is only allowed to use 1 damn grenade at a time. The Grey Knight comment came out because I watched an army of theirs table a friend of mine with one of generic netlists and it just made me want to puke.

there is precisely 1 grey knight build i'm afraid of. In casual play, their power level will roflstomp fluff based armies. that's just the way it goes. In a more competitive environment, it's only the coteaz lists i truly worry about.