Empire 2400pts For me and the Wife

[Hulkster]

Fantasy Army: Empire

Right then peeps, need a little advice. My wife has taken an interest in painting models and wants to help me paint my empire. Nordland Colours. Anyway certain models need to be in the list as she really likes them. There has to be Greatswords, a Hurricanium, Demigrpyh Knights, a wizard and the captain model with a pistol (who is the general in this list)

Other things like the large unit of swordsmen are due to having the models built and I dont fancy buying that many in replacements. But I am in general open to ideas. The list does not have to be killer but it needs to be effective, which I believe it is.

Anyway here is the list

Lords (457pts)
Battle Wizard Lord
Level 4
Lore of Light
Talisman of Preservation

General of the Empire
Full Plate Armour, Pistol, Shield
The White Cloak of Ulric, Dragonhelm, Ogre Blade

Heroes (321pts)
Battle Wizard
Lore of Beasts, Wizard level 2
Dispel Scroll

Captain of the Empire
Battle Standard Bearer, Full Plate Armour
Dawnstone, Enchanted Shield, Relic Sword

Master Engineer

Core (635pts)
50 Swordsmen
Full Command
15 Archers Detachment
25 Halberdiers Detachment

Special (734pts)
3 Demigryph Knights, Lances

Great Cannon

Great Cannon

25 Greatswords Full Command
Standard of Discipline

Rare (250pts)
Celestial Hurricanum

Helblaster Volley Gun

The tactics are pretty standard and I can go into more detail if needed/requested

Please give me any comments, even if they just say good list.

Thanks in advance

[Graxy]

I want to like the army, I really do but I just can't bring myself to it. My main problem with it is really just how small it seems on paper. What's hard about commenting on the list is all of the restrictions that seem to be under it making pretty much the only place where things can be changed is in the core and heroes section (and the changes to the heroes section ca nbe very limited realistically).

I'm still gonna have a crack at putting my opinion in though. I'm just gong to quickly go over my opinions on the things that really draw my eye.

1: War machines. As far as the war machines go, you have the perfect set up. You don't need any more to be effective (another cannon is absolute overkill and another hellblaster is just eating through points).

2. Lvl 2 wizard. As far as I can see, his only real purpose is being there to channel. You don't really have enough things that benefit from beasts reliably for him to really ddo anything. I'd say either change his lore or get rid of him completely

3. Core section. Now this is my main concern. You've put 635 points, into one unit (i'm including detatchments here since after the parent units gone, there basically free VP's). Really, my only suggestion here is to break it down into smaller units. I'm not sure how to do that effectively in this case though. Maybe 2 units of 30 swordsmen/halberdiers with a detatchment (2 detatchments and again you're really putting to much into each unit) each. 2 units of 30 with full command and a detachment of 15 each comes to 330 a piece (660 overall) so if you could shave some points off somewher, then you could do this.

Please, if you feel that something I've said is a bit iffy (for lack of a better word really (if iffy is even a real word)), don't feel bad about bringing it up, since even I'm not too convinced about my suggestions, just considering how much I struggled with them.

[Hulkster]

Lvl2 Wizard with beasts is for wildform and it was only lvl2 becuse i had 35pts left over

With regards the core it is designed to take the new detachment rules into effect. So when I boost the parent unit, the halberds and archers get the boost. splitting into 30s is what I used to do so I could do that again, but then the boosts are not being used, only 1 unit can feel the benefit

I may swap the lvl2 for a warrior priest for the prayer boosts.

You make a good argument, I would like to know what other people think?

And remember with regards my choices that have to be there, they have to be there, but not necessarily in the way they are being used at the moment.

[CM2728]

One thing, you have 4 special choices. According to the rules, an Army under the size of 3000 points is only authorized 3 choices....something I curse about on a daily basis trust me.

[metalloveman]

To CM2728 that rule only applies to duplicate choices. You can take as much special choices as the % allows as long as you don't take more that 2 of the same unit for under 2999 and 3 for 3000.

With regards to the actual list itself, swordsmen are more of a defensive unit so they are best around 35 in a 5 wide 7 deep formation. If you want to have a big old horde I'd recommend a big unit of halberdiers around 40 strong. with whatever you fancy in detachments. People usually play 2500 anyway so you could rearrange your core to be 40 halbs, with 20 man halb detach and 15 archer detach and then 35 swords to act as an anvil to your demigryph hammer. you should probably drop the lvl2 beasts.

You should try a few lores to see which ones you like on the lvl 4, metal and light are both good for their "buff every unit within 12 inches spells"

[GodlessM]

I like it, only beef I have with it is the lack of Priests.

[CM2728]

Thats right, my bad.....misread

[Spiney Norman]

Not bad, I would want to up the greatswords to 30 to horde them and bring a priest or two.

Swapping the L2 out for a priest shouldn't hurt your magic phase too much, I understand wanting access to Wyssans because it's about the only way to make swordsmen actually look worth their stupidly high points cost, but in this case I think priestly prayers and hatred would serve you better.

I can't help looking at that swordsmen unit and thinking "if they were Spearmen they'd be doing much the same thing for 100pts less", but if you're stuck with them because of GWs marketing strategy I guess there's no way round it.

Otherwise it's all looking very fine and dandy, the helblaster/engineer combo is great and the cannons a always a good buy.

[Morax]

I think one of the main problems people are having with the new book is lack of boots on the ground. People tend to go character heavy and warmachine heavy. These add up quickly, limiting the fighting blocks to smaller numbers than what needs to be seen, can't buff a unit that isn't there. So things like the general and level 2 wizard really need to be looked at when it comes to points invested. What does a level 2 wizard get you that a level 1 wizard and 5 more swordsmen don't? What does a general get you that a defensively built captain doesn't? You'd still use the same models, making the wife happy is just as important 9/10 times as playing the game, but you could afford the models that you need to win in points. I'd swap the general for a captain and downgrade the level 2 to a level 1 to get more greatswordsmen.

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Morax beat me to it. The Swordsmen, while quite capable of holding something up and even dealing some damage in return when in horde, just scream "target". In some cases, this might allow your GS to come around but if you need 2/3 of your units to gang up on one enemy in order to win, what is the rest of your opponent's force doing?

Anyways, this is not even my main beef with your list. You say that you want to buff the parent and through it its detachments. May I ask with what? You have no hatred, no prayers and spell effects do not transfer. In the end, your detachments could possibly be steadfast or have HtL, and archers rarely benefit from either unless you turn them into a conga. Don't get me wrong, steadfast is cool but there's nothing there that actually helps you win a fight.