What units have you played with that were called cheesy, but are far from it?

[RunepriestRidcully]

My Grey knights in the previous codex had been called over powered, the guy did use calgar in 1000pts games though..

[xalfej]

5 Wraithguards in a wave serpent

[Xuri-n]

I found people over look Hormagaunts, untill 15+ start taking wounds off Wolf Lords on Cavalry, whole grey knights squads etc etc, then all of a sudden they are worse than genestealers, trygons etc etc.
I cant help if the smallest unit I use throws 45 attacks on the charge, im only S3 (basic basic load out), nor is it my fault you cant make armour saves or are tooled to kill characters o

[ironsons]

Killa kans with grotzooka's. I rarely hit with them due to abysmal rolling but when they do hit they hit hard.

[eldargal]

6 Fire Dragons in a wave serpent. Because apparently the only effective anti-armour (especially AV14) choice in my army book is cheesy. I love Fire Prisms but they just don't work that well.

[Johnnyb]

My Black templar vinny and furious charging, preffered enemy assault terminator got accused of being cheesy to begin with, then I showed people the dex and they burst out laughing to see my basic marine type with Frag and Kraks comes in almost the same as a GK strike!

[L192837465]

I agree with this actually.

I'm not arguing that the lash is/isn't broken - just that it shouldn't exist. Movement should be a key part of each players strategy, and a good tactition can 'move' an opponent's forces by luring them into the open (with, for example, a sacrificial unit), or destorying their transport.

Lash, to me, is an example of laziness (why bother using good tactics to force my opponent's hand, when I can just lash their units whereever I like?). Now, with the Chaos codex being what it is, I can quite understand players using lash (since it's one of the handful of things in said codex that isn't crap), I just think it shouldn't have been inserted in the first place.

I disagree entirely. It's only a 24" range shooting attack. If it's that threatening, kill the sorc or stay out of range. It adds another dimension to the game, and at most moves two units 2d6 or one unit 4d6. That's really not bad. Given, its good, and clustering up an enemy for a vindicator shell is one of the greatest joys in wargaming, but to say it's "cheesey" or "shouldn't have been inserted in the first place" is laughable. So many more things are far FAR worse. Even when the chaos book was new it was never top tier, for a reason.

[Vipoid]

I disagree entirely. It's only a 24" range shooting attack. If it's that threatening, kill the sorc or stay out of range.

Well, it's an assault power, so it's up to 30", or 36" on a winged DP.

Good luck staying out of range of that.

It adds another dimension to the game, and at most moves two units 2d6 or one unit 4d6. That's really not bad.

It also removes several other dimensions - like using actual tactics to force your opponent's models into a good position, or positioning your own models in the best possible position.

Given, its good, and clustering up an enemy for a vindicator shell is one of the greatest joys in wargaming, but to say it's "cheesey" or "shouldn't have been inserted in the first place" is laughable. So many more things are far FAR worse.

There are so many things far worse... yet you are seemingly unable to name a single one. Huh.

In any case, saying "there are worse things" is a terrible argument if you're trying to argue the posatives for something. It's like saying "Being shot is actually quite pleasant, considering that you could be eaten alive by a bear."


To clarify, I don't think Lash is particularly OP (especially after the recent nerf of requiring a to-hit roll) - I just think that it shouldn't have been created, because it breaks one of the fundamental laws of the game - you control your own army. Movement is one of the most tactically important aspects of any game, and your opponent should not have any control of how your models move. If a game is lost due to poor movement or positioning of models on your part, it should be because you made a misjudgement - not because your opponent used a gimmick to mess up your movement. Similarly , if you win by outmaneuvering your opponent, it should be because you actually outmaneuver him - not because you used a cheap power to move his models for him.

Even when the chaos book was new it was never top tier, for a reason.

Yes, the Chaos Book wasn't (and isn't) top teir because it was crap. It has maybe 3 units that were actually decent, and everything else is abysmally bad, horribly overcosted or both.