Another Empire List? What are the odds! (3k)

[mike20]

Fantasy Army: BoC

Hey, Im just getting back into fantasy after a long break. I am going to start creating an empire army, so there's nothing off the table, and nothing I cant buy if I need too. I played empire back in 6th ed, and a bit in 7th. My army style then was to take a lot of infantry, a decent amount of artillery and a lot of vanilla characters. I found that while characters didn't stand much of a chance against enemy characters, they were intended more to knock out enemy units and let their characters loose to combat res. That being said, this army is planned on the same premise, with a few exceptions. I was successful with that style of army, however, it got a tad boring. So to spice things ups, i added some beasts and a tank. This list is about 90 pts over the limit and needs some trimming. Or perhaps overhauling, Im not sure. Let me know where you think improvements could be made for either competitiveness, or fun!

As it stands, each infantry block will enjoy the company of a priest and a witch hunter (for magic resistance). One lucky unit will also have a BSB (wherever I can hit most units with it). The engineer is around for obvious reasons. The infantry blocks will likely have the swords on the flank to ensure I dont get rolled up, and the other two center. Steam tank on opposit flank provides cover & support for the demigryphs beside it. General joins the Demigryphs, (and since the pegasus is a MB, does it gain LOS?) and main goal is to chop through enemy blocks (12 attacks at str 4, 9 attacks at str 5, -with the potential to have 6 attacks at str 7, if necessary- ) They will mainly try to engage infantry, but if necessary they can engage enemy hard hitters, which is why the general has potion of strength.

Innate weaknesses: no wizards - potential counters - all the main infantry have MR 2, and the 3x priests can channel dispel dice as needed. I would like to fit in a wizard somewhere if possible, but Im not sure if it is necessary. This is definitely my weakest phase.


- updated- army list

Lord:

Arch Lector - war altar, horn. HA, talisman of protection, enc. shield. - 324

Wizard Lord – level 4 - 200

Hero:

Master Engineer, light armour, charmed shield, pigeon bombs - 91

Captain, BSB, FP, warrior bane – 96

Captain, FP, SH, biting blade – 78

Warrior Priest, HA, 5pt magic sword – 72

Core:

10x Crossbows – 90

10x archers - 70

49x Spearmen, full command - 275

49x Halberdiers, full command – 324

Special:

3x Demigryph knight, musician – 264

28x Greatswords, full command - 337

1x Great Cannon -120

Rare:

Steam tank – 250

Steam tank -250

Celestial Hurricanum -130

Luminark - 120

Let me know what you think. Cheers

[GodlessM]

Since you are only returning to Warhammer I'll cut you some slack, but believe me when I tell you, you need a wizard in 8th edition. Magic is too powerful to allow it to run rampant, and that's what it does when your opponent has +4 to cast and you don't have any bonus. For the dispel alone most lists need a Level 4. In my personal experience, I've never seen a list without a Level 4 do well.

[mike20]

-updated- list on second page

Perhaps this might be a bit more appropriate, as it incorporates more magic and buffs for the troops? I would like either wizard (lvl 2) or a mortar..where could i cut? The WP & WH will go with the great, captain in each infantry block, with the witch hunter flying around, killing blow pistolling assorted wizards. The different warmachines, wizards, and priests contribute to magic phase, while the hard artillery hopefully takes out big threats. In essense I am trying to achieve and anvil and hammer army, where the three large infantry blocks hold the line, along with the artilley and some big magic chariots, and the knights, tanks, war alter, all try to curl up a flank.
Is this viable in 8th ed?

Deployment: make sense? The altar and diff. chariot should provide bubble effects while the captains hold tight, all the stuff right of Hurri (canum) roll up a flank



GS hellblas. Halb. WarA. Spear St.Tk. Demi. Wi.Hun.
Lum. Hurri.
x-bow (+wiz) x-bow(+wiz) cannon



let me know what ya think. cheers

[mike20]

and whats more effective, 50 spears or 40 swordsmen/halberds. ALso, I have no detachments, which hurts, but a huge amount chariotesque units and heavy hitters for that. Is it sufficient or is it better to drop some chariots and add detachments of 10-15 men ea.?

[mike20]

lastly, what lores should I take with the three wizards? The altar's bound "banishment" gets +1 str for every heavens wizard within 12", so mebbe the two lvl 1's as heavens for the altar to have 2d6 Str 6 bound magic missile? What you think?

[Askari]

Light and Shadow are my go-to Empire Lores.

Let's face it, Empire troops are pretty rubbish, Light can sort that, giving you ASF, WS10, I10 and +1 Attack - any of which makes them infantry worth having. Shadow, on the flipside, does the opposite to the enemy, lowering their strength, toughness, weapon skill, whatever you need lowering really, as well has having Pit of Shades to deal with troublesome units, and Mindrazor, which is just horrendous.

That being said, with Level 1 Wizards you can't be guaranteed any of the useful spells you want, so you want to pick a Lore with a good signature spell so you can swap out if you need to. Shadow fits here too, with Miasma. Beasts for Wyssan's Wildform and Fire for Fireball are also great choices. Avoid Metal (too high casting value for how good it is), Heavens and Life (pretty mediocre signature spells).

[mike20]

would it be better to have 1 lvl 2 wizard or 2x lvl 1?

[Deathbysoup]

I would say one lvl 2, give your level 4 light and your level 2 shadow. Although with the sheer number of priests you have I would just stick to one lvl 4 wizard with light. Theres no way in hell you will have enough PD for 2 wizards!

[Askari]

1 Level 2 vs. 2 Level 1s is entirely dependent on Lore choice and points available.

If you, for example, like Shadow, you may as well take one Level 2 mage to get two spells from that lore, than the more expensive, less efficient 2 Level 1 Shadow mages. If however, you want Wyssan's Wildform and Fireball, well obviously you want 2 Level 1s.

[mike20]

i was also considering changing a lvl 1 wiin wizard for an engineer to help out the artilelry, is that more points wise? because i do have a lot of bound spells in any given turn

[Lord Solar Plexus]

That's a good idea, mike. The performance of the Helblaster goes up dramatically with an Engineer (it nearly doubles the hits) and you already have enough casters. I also suggest you take a look at items that give you power dice.

[mike20]

Ok, so I changed the list and have 60 points left over. I dropped the 2 wizards (since I will lack the PD to actually use them) and added an engineer. I gave the wizard lord a 4++ and DD, boosted the halberd to 50, and dropped 4 x-bows and a witch hunter on magic carpet. What should I use those remaining points for?

Would it be better if I dropped all the x-bows and got a 10man strong unit of inner circle knights? it would give me another hammer. Or I could get a pegasus for my wizard lord or some magic items for any characters. WHat do you think would be most effective.

cheers

-updated- list on the last page

[Graxy]

I'd say that the arch lector needs the 4++ much more than the level 4. Although it does protect him from miscasts to some extent, thats the only real protection it offers him, considering that any time he gets into combat, he's basically doomed anyway (unless you can stop it from being a massive stall war and win in the 1st round). Meanwhile, you're arch lector (who is also your general) is being targetted by a cannonball or spells or any other form of a ranged weapon, and will die quie quickly (especially at 3k). If that happens, then you lose your LD9 bubble, forcing you to have an ld8/7 army, which really can't be pulled of as well as it used to be able to.

It's only a small thing that doesn't change much, but if you're short for points for adding anything, the gleaming pendant on the demigryphs is the first thing to lose. It's nice to have, but it's not really doing anything unless your battle standard is sniped before they take an ld check.

I understand that you're only returning to fantasy sso aren't 100% sure on what people are running, but if this list is for all comers and not just a certain group of people who you know and regularly play with, take a magic weapon or two. Ethereal units are taken in most vampire armies and are a pain in the ass to get rid of without them. Basically, you can't hurt them unless you attack them with magical attacks, and although your level 4 (who by the way, I would reccomend light magic, but this ones really personal preferance) can cast spells at them, it's not really a reliable way to get rid of them, especially with hexwraiths being so damn fast. Just remember, if this list isn't really aimed to be an all comers list and is really just for a few people, just ignore me.

Hope the list goes well mate welcome back to stallhamm... I mean warhammer!

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Looks pretty decent to me. Of course we could debate the details for all eternity but I think the next step would be to test it out and see what works and what doesn't work for you, or in your "meta".

Btw, here's a link on the Hellblaster + Engineer: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtop...758728#p758728

[GodlessM]

Good list. Only problems I see are the lack of the ward on the Lector (Cannon bait), and the lack of a second Cannon for redundancy.

[mike20]

also, do you think that the infantry should deploy in horde formation 10x5, and try to win combat, (lol i know) or go for steadfast at 6x8?? I was also considering mace of helstrum...good fit for the arch lector? or a 50 pt sink?

[Graxy]

Its not the best idea to decide how and where to deploy pre game. Try to adapt to the situation. It helps you get better as far as tactics are concerned and lets you learn good and bad matchups as well as how to play against other armies

[mike20]

yea, those were just some general ideas, but definitely adjust to the enemy. As for the arch lector, is a 4++ or white cloak better?

[Graxy]

I'd proabably say 4++, the only times when th 2++ from white cloak will help for his durability consistently is against dwarf gunlines, in which case, he's not living long anyway. The 4++ just provides a consistent 50/50 chance of saving the wound vs the white cloaks 33%/83%

[Askari]

The White Cloak has another ability you're missing out on Graxy which aids survivability.