Another Empire List? What are the odds! (3k)

[Graxy]

My msitake,I'm stuck in last edition as always. The -1 to hit in combat does help quite a bit, but when you consider that the main threat to him is cannonballs, other war machines and shooting in general, the majority ofwhich he would only be getting a 5++ against, I might consider the 4++. Although it does help out a lot in combat, the altar is fairly durable without, so is not under any immediate threat while the lector has a good armour and in the situation I'm describing, a 4++, he should be able to survive pretty well on his own. as well as this, it gives him a couple spare points for a magic weapon which he desperately needs as I stated in my long post (sorry for ridiculously long post btw) for etheral defences, especially for the altar since its a nice juicy target for hexwraiths, wraiths and even spirit hosts to hold up and maybe even cause damage.

Either way, I'd say try them both out, see which one works better or which one you like and use that one. Personally, I'm for 4++, but no-one's going to judge you if oyu take white cloak

Sorry for long post again, I feel the need to elaborate on points way too much

[mike20]

glittering scales + white cloak = hitting the AL on 6's in combat lol

So magic items have been distributed. Only issue remaining - what magic weapon for arch lector? Is mace of helstrum a good call with AL? or something else? Im not sure how much a good CC weapon will help, so maybe just a cheapo one so he can hit ethereal?


-updated- list at the bottom of this page

[mike20]

what si the best rank formation for a 50 squad of troop?, having horde benefit as a 10x5 uni would allow for a large amount of attacks (4 ranks with the spears, 3 with halberds) but I wont have steadfast. Is the extra rank attacking more beneficial than steadfast

[mike20]

I have also heard constant advice that detachment are necessary to do well now, but their points cost dont count for the minimum, so I decided against taking them. Do detachments really make that much of a difference?

[Lord Solar Plexus]

The best number of ranks depends on what you want the unit to do. You never want to win and be steadfast at the same time - you do not need the latter when you win. Remember that you can nearly always reform a unit to be deeper or wider if you have enough space. In combat, it's easier to reform from a bus into a horde since you cannot take models out of the fight.

One misconception is that a horde is not steadfast. How do you know? You haven't defined an enemy unit. Not every unit out there has 6 ranks, so on paper the unit may or may not be SF. It's like saying a bus will lose.

In any case, with 50 Halberdiers I would nearly always go 10-wide.

Detachments can be nice but aren't a must if you ask me. As with everything else, try them out once in a while. Their point cost does count towards the category of their parent (core or special) btw.

[Graxy]

Detachments can be nice but aren't a must if you ask me.

I don't know about that really. In this edition (on paper, as I'm still working on getting the full army), I can see detatchments as being cheaper more useful units of pistoliers. Obviously, they are not cavalry and dont have pistols (it takes a goldfish to point that out), but think about it, what are pistoliers primary use? To re-direct charges. Now, lets take what I would consider the best detatchment for the pistolier esq. strategy that I will be attempting, a greatsword detatchment of swordsmen. Because their a greatsword detatchment, they're stubborn so a unit of 15 or so aren't likely to run in the first turn (depending on the charging unit, second round of combat either) which gives enough time to set up a flank charge, or at least delay for long enough that you can put yourself in more optimal position.

I'm going to say now that this is completely untested, as I haven't talked to any other empire players recently, or been able to test it out myself as the army is still in progress but I think it may be a viable strategy, but whatever, we'll see when I get the army together (probably by around christmas 2014 at this rate)

Also probably missed something, so if anyone could point out anything that they think I've missed (if anyone in the world is in the same mindset as me) that would be appreciated

[mike20]

i suppose then its probably wise to make my x-bows detachments then so they gain some benefits and allow for a stand and shoot? I was also thinking that maybe dropping some x-bows and about 10 men of each core block and picking up a unit of 5 inner circle knights would give me another flanker, though this is essentially a loss of 20 fighting troops. Have cavalry lost a lot of their use as a 5man flanker in 8th?

[mike20]

I just picked up a 2nd steam tank on ebay for much too cheap. So this had me thinking....2 steam tanks = better than 1 steam tank. SO, I was shifting some points around. and I came up with some modifications. Listed below. Essentially I dropped the cannon for a steam tank, shifting the luminark to the wizards chariot. THe rest of the points I made up cutting some character items and command off the demigryph


Let me know what you think. Cheers
I know the stank isnt as reliable as a regular cannon, but it is a stank, and double should have good psychological impact.

[mike20]

shifted around some models, add a great cannon, moved luminark to rare and dropped the helblaster, though I picked up pigeon bombs.


Is a hellblaster (+engineers) really worth the 200 points?, I know it has the POTENTIAL to get thsoe points back, but will it on average, with 2-3 turns of shooting?

[mike20]

Last questions.... I will mostly be playing High elves, with some lizardmen, deamons and WoC.

Knowing this, which state troop would be best suited to combating faster, stronger and multiple-attack units of those armies? I have halberd down, but perhaps spears might be better suited, or swords which their added survivability?

[Lord Solar Plexus]

That's very difficult to say with any certainty. In my experience, none can combat them, they all die pretty much the same: Messily. Halberds will kill more, Swords will parry (but IMO not enough to make up for reduced numbers) and Spearmen might shine simply because it takes longer to chew through them.

I don't know about that really.

To tell the brutal truth, neither do I, Graxy. I'm trying to weasel through with a dose of logic and common sense backed up with past experiences. Yes, a detachment can do what you have described but is that necessary or just nifty? Judging by the thick coating of dust, I don't think I've taken Pistoliers in the last two years.

[Graxy]

Last questions.... I will mostly be playing High elves, with some lizardmen, deamons and WoC.

Knowing this, which state troop would be best suited to combating faster, stronger and multiple-attack units of those armies?

The one's that are back in the village, as far away from the war as possible.
Basically, against these armies, you pretty much want to avoid combat as much as possible, since your units are just so outclassed by them that to fight them head on is basically giving away VPs. If I had to choose, I'd probably sa swordsmen or spearmen since they have the best ability to live of the 3 (swordsmen parry and spearmen have higher numbers. Now, I'm not trying to condone a gunline here, but a more defensive army with a bit more shooting and magic is probably the way forward given the situation. Obviously take some combat blocks since you're shooting units are pretty much helpless in cmobat, but definately a bit more shooting would be reccomended.

[mike20]

Point taken...,

rather than having
50x halberd
50x spears
10x x-bow
10x archers

I could fit in
40x spears
40x spears
10x xbows
10x handgunners
20x archers


this would double my shooting, while not drastically reducing combat ability (only 20%)
archers as detachments for the spears, x-bows in the back.,

Also, I could trade the cannon for a helblaster and move the luminark to the wizardlord. What would be more beneficial, a cannon or hellblaster? Keep in mind the 2 cannons on the two stanks (they wont be moving much since I will be defensive)