Horde formation

[vinush]

Who uses horde formation?

Seriously, who uses it?

I've not come up against a "horde" yet in any of my games. I know we normally only play 1000, 1500 or occasionally 2000 point games, but even the O&G and Skaven players don't run their uber cheap troops in Horde formation.

I see all of these posts on here saying that a hordee of this means such and such, or this particular build won't work against a unit in horde formation, and it got me to wondering how often people actually see horde formation in their games?

THE \/ince

[Rosstifer]

I run my 24 Chosen 10 wide fairly often. Not really a horde, but they hit like one. I've also run Marauders, Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Chaos Warriors (Once for silly fun), Gor, Bestigor and Corsairs in Horde. I don't often start a game in Horde. I much prefer bieng able to choose the moment I go horde, as being in horde isn't always an advantage.

You don't often see cheap stuff as hordes, funnily enough. It's often "Elite" troops like Black Orcs, Bloodletters and Bestigor that can have a single high strength attack.

[Gazak Blacktoof]

I've only been using empire recently and I've used spears, halberds and great swords in horde. None of my opponents has used a horde formation yet, preferring instead to pin the horde with a deeper unit if possible. Myself and another empire player had great success in a 2 v 2 battle using an army of mixed unit sizes. He had small deep delaying units and I had fewer, larger horde units. In that way we could hold our opponents and not give up VPs using his units then concentrate force using horded up units to punch other parts of the line.

[Ponge]

I never use them, I prefer to increase my chances of being steadfast so I play with deeper units.

[warplock]

I've not come up against a "horde" yet in any of my games. I know we normally only play 1000, 1500 or occasionally 2000 point games, but even the O&G and Skaven players don't run their uber cheap troops in Horde formation.

Thats because theres no point running cheap rubbish troops in horde, because they'll lose combat anyway so you want them to be steadfast for as long as possible. Sacrificing ranks for an extra 7-10 mediocre attacks isn't worth it. And as you play small games, you're unlikely to see elite units big enough to warrant hordeing.

Undead might be an exception, since they don't care about steadfast. But as soon as you start talking about grave guard equivalents or white lions, it's clear to see that an extra rank of accurate S5 or 6 attacks is worth it.

[The Low King]

I used a horde of slayers the other day, quite a threatening sight.

Other than that the only horde i ever use is Dwarf warriors with GWs

[Valaraukar]

As previously mentioned most cheap troops aren't good enough fighters to be worth hordeing given the reduced ranks for steadfast but any offensive rather than defensive unit benefits from being in horder formation to maximise the damage output from a given frontage, hence it tends to be high strength mid cost units such as bloodletters, bestigor even halberdiers, stormvermin that are most commonly seen in horde formation as most truly elite units such as Chaos warriors and elven and dwarven elites tend to be cost prohibitive to horde properly although in larger games these will also show up.

I regularly field hordes with my offensive units and deep defensive units for steadfast to maximise the traits of each, I have also had significant success running monstrous infantry hordes such as troll and minotaur hordes which if sufficiently protected by chaff to avoid tarpitting and flank charges can cause people real problems as they tend to destroy anything they touch.

[Djekar]

I run my dark elf troops 10 wide quite frequently, though they are generally only 20-30 in number, so it isn't a true horde. For them it's all about maximizing the number of attacks from the front rank.

As far as Orcs go, I always horde my Savage Orc Big Uns (economical "elites" for the Orcs), I have frequently horded Black Orcs (though that may be changing soon), and I also frequently horde Squig Herds and/or Night Goblins. Yes, even the lowly night goblin with a spear can be scary given enough green bodies.

Finally with Warriors, like Rosstifer I have run units of Warriors or Chosen 10 or 12 wide to maximize attacks, though only once have I run a true horde of these (1 of each, actually - 30 chosen is pretty stupid, really), I generally try to fit in a horde of greatweapon Marauders because they are pretty dang cheap and I have tried the Chaos Troll Horde led by Trogg once too.

[thesheriff]

I usually run a horde of bloodletters, but beyond that, I dont eally own anything eligable for hording.

thesheriff

[Sunner]

Love talking hordes. Always take them when I can fit them in my goblin army, a unit of 50 with the banner of the spider god. Or if the points allow a 10x10 unit with a general straight up the middle, its dangerous in a 1500 point game. For fun, I took a horde of 50 Maraurders Great Weapon, Mark of Khrone and Wulfrik the Wanderer coming in behind the enemy. The person I was playing had no idea what was happening.

[dwarfboy]

For fun, I took a horde of 50 Maraurders Great Weapon, Mark of Khrone and Wulfrik the Wanderer coming in behind the enemy. The person I was playing had no idea what was happening.

My brother does that quite often, is quite annoying but looks impressive on the board and hits like a ton of crazy bricks. I generaly horde GW dwarf warriors and quite often GW quarrellers and slayers (when I use them), bloodletters too. I think blocks of 40+ in ranks of 10 really look a lot better than in ranks of 5 or 6, looks menacing, and is a great target for war machines

[Haravikk]

I think in smaller games it's hard to fit in a truly useful Horde, as its very easy for them to just get stuck not doing much, especially if your opponent has a fast army. Plus with the points of a Horde your enemy can probably gang up a load of stuff onto them, so the numbers don't last long. You really need a bigger game where a Horde can have more protection (possibly from another Horde!) at which point they can work extremely well.

In larger games (over 2,000 points) I like taking a Great Weapon Horde of Dwarf Warriors, and a deep formation of 30-40 with hand weapons and shields, as it gives me flexibility when combined with the rest of my army. The Hand Weapon and Shield unit can of course reform into a Horde if their Toughness and armour are enough protectional i.e - no need for them to ensure Steadfast if they could be doing more damage instead. With the Great Weapon unit though it basically has to stay in Horde, as even if it's fighting a narrow unit, it gets more damage out by allowing the third rank to fight, which is what usually wins their combats.

Slayers in a Horde are also good, but then they have no need for Steadfast.

[yabbadabba]

I've run Horde GSwords, Swordsmen, Spearmen and Halberdiers. All good fun, yet with the new Empire rules I might choose to go for steadfast instead.

[Morkash]

I find the Horde is one of the things most dependant on your metagame. I suppose Malorian will jump in soon and praise it, while many people, myself included see only limited sense in it.

I fielded only two different sorts of horde until now: the Gutstar and the Savage Big Unz horde. The latter has incredible damage potential, good resilience with T4 and a 5+ Ward yet it is large, frenzied (not much of a downside, but still) and quite unwieldy. But it looks awesome on the table and that's usually the main reason I field it. Don't get me wrong, it is powerful but rather easily avoided and very dependant on a) winning combats and b) keeping the Great Shaman alive. Mine usually dies to either a miscast or because he's focused and the reduced ward makes them more vulnerable.

The Gutstar on the other hand is at least as hard hitting as the Savages, but has more wounds and constantly high strength. Give them Regeneration and they're quite unkillable. Unless you fight the Legion of Azgorh that is. Ever lost 11 Ironguts in one shooting phase? They deliver, you suffer --> Just. Don't.
But besides evil stunties there is little which can face a Gutstar and hope to survive more than a few turns of combat. Over 50 S6 attacks, Impact hits and Stomp leave little to be mourned. Still I prefer units of 10 or 11 Ogres with characters. Their front is less wide, they stick deliver a truckload of wounds and I do not have to rely on a single tool of warfare to win my fights.

If you fight against horde armies all the time I'd horde more as well, but on the last 3 tournaments I saw exactly 2 kinds of hordes and that were my own Savages and the Khorne Marauder horde. Against the latter you do not want to be in horde formation anyways and against the former...well, it was my own army.

[underscore]

I never do. I'd love to be able to say that's for a particularly intelligent, tactical reason - but in reality I have no real interest in painting so many of the same models!

[Duke Ramulots]

Been playing orcs n gobbos lately, so hordes a pleanty. With my brets I horde up my S5 T8 men at arms quite often and smash things with them, but thats situational.

[Haravikk]

I suppose my "rule" for it is; Horde anything with high Strength but low Attacks, or anything really cheap, as you get most damage out this way and shouldn't need Steadfast as a result. Otherwise, if in doubt; go deep! Narrower means easier to fit through gaps and less damage from enemy Hordes (since they can't make their full attacks) plus Steadfast means you're going for time rather than damage.

I think the main point is that you want to use a Horde if the purpose is to destroy something quickly, while deep, Steadfast blocks give you the time needed to bring other units to bear. Both tactics can work well.

I voted for using Horde all the time, but I'd really say I use it a lot of the time (since I usually play 2000+ point games), but I really use a mixture as while I favour a Horde + a deep unit as noted above, I vary my list quite a bit each time I play; sometimes I'll go for the two big units like that, other times I'll go for one deep, survivable unit, with smaller (20-25 model) great weapon units, where Horde wouldn't help them since their purpose is manoeuvrability to get their damage where it's needed (flanks).

Also, even against horde type armies you don't necessarily need to Horde your units, as deep can be better if your units are tough enough, since your aim to wear down their numbers with as little risk to yourself as possible.

[Boreas_NL]

I usually field at least two hordes in my Empire army: 40 Halberdiers and 40 Greatswords... In larger games (3000+ points) I can field another horde of 40 Greatswords. I sometimes field a horde of 40 Free Company, too (my Sisters of Sigmar)... These large blocks are always supported by smaller units to protect their flanks...

[BigbyWolf]

I use it on my Ghouls, GW Grave Guard, dual choppa Orcs and Marauders with flails. Basically anything that can put put out a lot of damage that isn't Chaos Warriors.

[Andy p]

I often horde even cheap troops like night goblins, purely because if I am to hold someone up I usually make sure a good LD and bsb reroll is nearby for steadfast, which means that I can charge in or be charged, take the hits pass steadfast on a rerollable 9 and then reform into deeper ranks if it is suitable.

Besides, it's easier to get a 10 wide unit of 100 gobbos on the table without breaking the usual 12" deployment rule; rather than 5 wide.