The Unkindness of Ravens

[strongbow]

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Blog/The...as-landed.html

http://www.blacklibrary.com/exclusiv...of-ravens.html

Looks pretty exciting!

I have a feeling George Mann might do for the Raven Guard what Nick Kyme did for Salamanders, in terms of really bringing them into their own and expanding their lore.

What do we think? Limited edition work again - I'm guessing that'll ruffle a few feathers? (pun kind-of intended!)

[SunTzu]

I have a feeling George Mann might do for the Raven Guard what Nick Kyme did for Salamanders

God, I hope not.

[shadowhawk2008]

God, I hope not.

So much negativity in the world!

@strongbow
Having listened to Helion Rain and read the eShort Prey, I'm not all that convinced that George Mann's take on the Raven Guard is anywhere close to what Nick did for the Salamanders and is continuing to do. Helion Rain was a lot of trouble to get through and while Prey was much better and decent enough, it didn't gel well enough for me.

That said, George does have some interesting ideas with them. The challenge IMO for him is to use some different kind of names. Right now, his characters all have similar names and play too much into the bird/Corax theme of the chapter. Cordae from the eShort and the captain from HR. He is supposedly using IA8 as a base to build a bird/predator fetish theme for the chapter so I'm not convinced at the moment. I'd like him to take on a novel and see how he handles the full, regular format rather than shorts (audio dramas are all shorts) and novellas. It could be interesting if given that much space to develop.

[jedideinos]

Having listened to Helion Rain and read the eShort Prey, I'm not all that convinced that George Mann's take on the Raven Guard is anywhere close to what Nick did for the Salamanders and is continuing to do.

That said, George does have some interesting ideas with them. The challenge IMO for him is to use some different kind of names. Right now, his characters all have similar names and play too much into the bird/Corax theme of the chapter. Cordae from the eShort and the captain from HR. He is supposedly using IA8 as a base to build a bird/predator fetish theme for the chapter so I'm not convinced at the moment. I'd like him to take on a novel and see how he handles the full, regular format rather than shorts (audio dramas are all shorts) and novellas. It could be interesting if given that much space to develop.

I'm afraid I'm going to be negative. While I liked Helion Rain - the RG do whatever it takes to win - I found Labyrinth rather awkward: it seemed as if Mann was fixated on the Minotaurs=bulls idea. For the record, I like the idea of the Korvayae (if that's how you spell it), but Prey felt to me like I was reading a Space Wolf story with the names changed. Overall, I think Mann has some neat ideas, but hasn't quite got the idea of the Raven Guard and their modus operandi.

[Nazguire]

If by doing to the Raven Guard what Nick Kyme did to the Salamanders you mean making it seem like a cheesy 80's cartoon, sure. The Salamanders novels played up the fire, anvil, hammer thing so much that at some points I was reading with a raised eyebrow going "really?"

[shadowhawk2008]

I'm afraid I'm going to be negative. While I liked Helion Rain - the RG do whatever it takes to win - I found Labyrinth rather awkward: it seemed as if Mann was fixated on the Minotaurs=bulls idea. For the record, I like the idea of the Korvayae (if that's how you spell it), but Prey felt to me like I was reading a Space Wolf story with the names changed. Overall, I think Mann has some neat ideas, but hasn't quite got the idea of the Raven Guard and their modus operandi.

That's roughly what I said. If you watch the video, he DOES have an idea of what the Raven Guard are about, its just that he has so far put them in situations where it doesn't really apply.

Like HR, where they fight tyranids pretty much head on, and in Prey, in which a chaplain is looking for some new animal decration for his armour.

If by doing to the Raven Guard what Nick Kyme did to the Salamanders you mean making it seem like a cheesy 80's cartoon, sure. The Salamanders novels played up the fire, anvil, hammer thing so much that at some points I was reading with a raised eyebrow going "really?"

Never came across like that to me. But then again, I like Bill King's Space Wolves novels and consider Nick's Salamanders stuff to be top-notch.

[strongbow]

I did try after making that comment regarding Nick Kyme and the Salamanders a bit more rational byadding "in terms of really bringing them into their own and expanding their lore". However I must have underestimated the need to be critical here. I'm not commenting either way on the quality of the books. In my view he did however put a huge amount of effort into widening our knowledge of the Salamanders and their home world. Whether anyone likes what that was or not. And if you're just going to say 'he didn't put any effort in, it was all hammers and fire' - then don't bother. It's the Salamanders, and it's 40k. Themes are always heavily expanded upon, and lets be honest, fire and hammer and anvils are pretty damn awesome things to use a lot of.

Anywho... The quote above regarding Prey being similar to Space Wolves but with a different animal struck me, especially after reading Kraken!

Shadowhawk I definitely agree with you on the names, the latin for raven is corvus (or something to that effect)... we get it GW! It would be good to get some originality on that front. I also agree with you regarding the need for a novel - several shorts/novellas are too bitty and as you say, do they gel well? At least with the Salamanders, generally the shorts flitted around the novels and used the same characters. For me this built up a need to know what happened to the characters in the shorts surrounding the novels, and there often was continuation/familiarity because of that.

I think really I'm just excited for the potential here. He clearly is passionate about them and some new thinking/expansion into a much-less followed first foudning legion is great, as far as I'm concerned.

[shadowhawk2008]

Yep, your last comment pretty much says it. Say what you will, but the passion is there. The interest is there. After Cadian Blood and Epic, its nice to see the Raven Guard getting so much attention in the last couple years.