clan rats vs slaves

[karse88]

let me hear your thoughts, what is best and why?

HUGE blocks of slaves
many "smaller" units of slaves
HUGE block(s) of Clan rats - maybe even horde
many small units of clanrats / storm vermin for weapon teams

any other?

we had a long discussion about this because i find clan rats useless in any format except fielding bunker and weapons team ... please give me a good and solid reason to use them otherwise..

[tiger g]

yes they are good. all of them. choose what you like.

[warplock]

Clanrats hit WS4+ enemies on a 4+ instead of 5+.
Clanrats don't need a babysitter as they can get up to Ld8 on their own without any characters.
Clanrats aren't destroyed if they flee, so there's a chance the unit could live on to serve some further purpose in the battle.
Clanrats can have weapons teams.
Clanrats can have a banner, unlike slaves.
Clanrats are twice as expensive as Slaves but are still underpriced. M5, I4, Ld8, and 1/2 point weapon options, for less than the cost of a Skeleton? Nice.
People won't hate you as much if you take Clanrats.

[mbh1127]

You need both


Slaves are the best unit in the game for their points. They can hold up elite troops form multiple turns and the cornered rats rule usually helps screw things up.

I don't think you would have an easy time winning without both.

[wilsongrahams]

clanrats. do you really want to paint 200+ slaves instead of just 100 clanrats? plus the monetary cost. Or use both. I stick to clanrats personally and have 150 in a 2500pt army.

[GodlessM]

Hell Pit Abominations.

[Why]

Hell Pit Abominations.

Yes! Take as many as possible and then some

Skaven slaves are probably better but clanrats are cheaper and you have to paint less.

[Jumbo]

2 slaves are almost always better than a single clanrat. Multiple units of slaves (at least 40 models strong) is the best option.

[Metacarpi]

I prefer to take Clan Rats, as I like the Weapons Teams, and the Clannies can have standards, which is useful if the Blood and Glory scenario is rolled.

[13713]

Clanrats for building/painting sanity. Slaves for tactics.

[russellmoo]

80+ clanrats with spears, makes for a fun horde

50-60 slaves

you can take small slave units but, personally I feel like this is throwing away points- if you want re-directors take 5 giant rats with a packmaster

[Bungor78]

Can I just ask why slavescost £8.70 for 5 models??? when they are merely canon-fodder or for holding up units, and I presume are cheap points-wise? This baffles me and really putting me off going Skaven

[Zinch]

You can use clan rats as slaves: even the army book tolds you to do so. Of course it is better to use the un-armoured bodies for the slaves.

[russellmoo]

I also think it makes for some fun and character when Skaven players use models from other armies to represent "slaves"- as this just makes sense to me- Why wouldn't a Warlord use captive empire militia, night goblins, gnoblars, Bret peasants, etc. as a meat shield, usually they were going to be killed and eaten anyway, why not have your enemy do the butchering for you.

[Grey Seer]

I also think it makes for some fun and character when Skaven players use models from other armies to represent "slaves"- as this just makes sense to me- Why wouldn't a Warlord use captive empire militia, night goblins, gnoblars, Bret peasants, etc. as a meat shield, usually they were going to be killed and eaten anyway, why not have your enemy do the butchering for you.

Russellmoo, I think they were orginally human slaves (like 4th edition or earlier). I do not know why I think this, but I do...

[mbh1127]

I don't know why either

They were always skaven slaves from thrid edition on. The other races were sometimes mentioned in the fluff though. Personally I don't love the look of those units, but lots of skaven armies use them.

[karse88]

what damage can clanrats do? :S...
I dont think you can live without them, pointwise they are pretty good because of SIN, parry for cheap cheese and weapon teams...
in CC they do literately no damage against a lot of armies on their own, and you can have 2 slaves for 1 clan rat?... the way i see it i would prefer CR against armies of same builds...
but only small groups with weapon teams against all others.. people that use CR offensively must be darn lucky! i cant get it to work!... the idea of him charging into my slaves and the next round get 10 jezzail shots, ratling guns and if big, warpfire throwers and wlc is just "Mmmmm cheeeeese" ^^

[boli]

Giant rats +1WS, +1M, +1 LD and fight in an extra rank for only 1 point more than slaves

[karse88]

but you cant shoot into a gian rat group..... this is the only reason why slaves are really cool!.. low pointcost and you can shoot into the unit without hitting your own models! - i thought about the giant rats though , maybe they are better at holding people for many rounds, i dont know

[Zinch]

In fact, giant rats have a +3Ld while there's at least a single packmaster alive (something realy easy if you are not flank/rear charged).

The point in taking slaves, through, is to tarpit an enemy unit and then they are the best unit in the game: 2 point a piece and you can shot at the combat!

I personaly don't take slaves when I play friendly because I think they are undercosted and I prefer clan rats, but competitively they are the better option hands down... Unless you take a bell, then a unit of clan rats is mandatory