2012 Release Schedule

[drbored]

I got a rare opportunity to ply a wealth of information for some knowledge and insight about what's coming up next/soon.

Here's the rundown...

Dark Angels (May/June)
6th Edition (July/August)
-Starter Box featuring Dark Angels vs. Eldar
Eldar (Oct/Nov Xenos slot)

And somewhere in that mix is going to be a splash release of fliers that *should* include the Harpy, Voidraven Bomber, Doom/Night Scythe, and possibly more. When I mentioned 'Autumn of Fliers' I got a derisive snort, so we may see it sooner, we may see it later.

This confirms two things:
1. It's not going to be Dark Angels and Chaos for the Starter Box. GW is NOT going to put two power armor armies in the same box. Power armor is their bread and butter, and to put two power armor armies in one starter box doesn't follow any trends, going back to the Rogue Trader days. It *may* be Dark Angels vs. Tau, but my source suggested Eldar strongly for several reasons.
-A. Eldar is a girl-getter. It's the one army that attracts more girls to the game than any other.
-B. Eldar is currently the worst selling army.
-C. Eldar has a massive loyal fanbase.
Eldar are the logical step, and now they're the rumored next step in this coming Xenos season.

2. Chaos is not going to be coming out this year, but may be slotted for early 2013. This is good and bad... bad because we don't get Chaos sooner. Good because it means Chaos will be a true 6th edition army, and not a 'made for' 6th edition army. This will put more time between the release of the rules and the finessing of the Codices, which means a better 6th edition Codex for Chaos. We could, of course, get a surprise, where they slam in a new Codex into the year, but that doesn't trend either. My source suggested, however, that we may see a lot of 'splash' releases packed in, with the aforementioned fliers being one.

As for my source, of course I can't reveal him. It'd be a plain disservice to his trust. What I can say is that he is a wealth of knowledge about all things GW, Forgeworld, and Black Library, and has many contacts therein (and I don't mean GW store managers. I mean Codex and BL authors, and GW and Forgeworld sculptors).

I would be very surprised if I was proved wrong by the passage of time and the developments therein, but such is the nature of the future. Take it or leave it, but I'm confident that you shouldn't have to take too much salt with this.

[The Dude]

I know Harry originally said Eldar for the starter (but may have paired them with Chaos, not DA) but when Hastings claimed DA vs Chaos, he said not to bet against Hastings.

Will be interesting to see if Hastings was in fact wrong.

[drbored]

I know Harry originally said Eldar for the starter (but may have paired them with Chaos, not DA) but when Hastings claimed DA vs Chaos, he said not to bet against Hastings.

Will be interesting to see if Hastings was in fact wrong.

All GW trends and business logic already disagrees with Chaos vs Dark Angels. The fact of the matter, from what I understand, is that if they saturate the release of 6th edition with power armored armies being released, then they can kiss goodbye to revenues later when they don't have power armored armies to release. It's as if a grocery store sold all their milk in one week and couldn't restock it for weeks after. Simply not a good plan. Beyond that, it's always been Space Marines versus Xenos. Rogue Trader saw boxes of Space Marines paired with Space Orks. Second Edition was Black Templar and Dark Eldar. 3rd edition was Space Marines and Orks. 4th edition was Space Marines and Tyranids. 5th edition was Space Marines and Orks. (I may have gotten 2nd and 3rd mixed...) It's how they introduce players to the game.

A double-power armored starter box would be a deal-seeker's dream, and GW would lose a lot of revenue on selling other boxes of power armored guys. Why would I buy 4 boxes of 10 Chaos Marines for 35 bucks a pop (140 dollars) when I can get the same, plus dreads and HQ's for only 100 with a mini rulebook! Shave off some Dark Angel or Chaos bits respectively and you're good to go at 1250+ points right off the bat. It's not good business. Betting on DA vs. Chaos in a starter is like wishing GW to go to your door and just hand you a 100 dollar check. Just won't happen.

[The Dude]

All GW trends and business logic already disagrees with Chaos vs Dark Angels. The fact of the matter, from what I understand, is that if they saturate the release of 6th edition with power armored armies being released, then they can kiss goodbye to revenues later when they don't have power armored armies to release.

Meh. A lot of assumptions in that statement. Personally, I wouldn't attempt to guess at the "logic" behind any decision GW.

It could be as simple as a double Power Armour starter is easier to balance. If it is used the way they want it to be, i.e. as an introductory game for newbies, both players having easy to play forces (read Marines) makes it less likely one player will bomb out miserably and be soured towards the hobby because of it.

Can you imagine what would happen with Eldar? You'd have the noobs fighting each other to play the Marines because the Eldar die too easily

If GW are so concerned about people doubling up their forces through converting the other half, all they need to do is make sure the models are so heavily Chaos / Dark Angel that it's not worth it.

We've heard people make similar claims in the past about GW stopping the boxed game altogether or making them have only one army, because people split boxes and resell what they don't want. I see just as little chance of that happening as them specifically avoiding DA vs Chaos simply because they're both Marines.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I try not to make that sort of assumption about GW's motivations.

[Tarax]

Can you imagine what would happen with Eldar? You'd have the noobs fighting each other to play the Marines because the Eldar die too easily

This, and the fact that starter sets usually come with a small elite army vs a horde army, both in Fantasy and 40K (Fantasy: HE vs Goblins (4th), Bret vs Lizardmen (5th), Empire vs Orcs (6th) (well, maybe not this one), Dwarfs vs Goblins (7th), HE vs Skaven (8th); 40K: SM vs Orks (2nd), SM vs DE (3rd) (well, maybe not this one), SM vs Tyranids (4th), SM vs Orks (5th)).
Since it will always be SM vs ?, and Eldar can hardly be called a horde army, I have my doubts.
Which horde armies are out there? Orks, Tyranids and IG. Maybe it's Tyranids again with a new codex coming soon?

We'll just have to wait and see.

[Austinitor]

Beyond that, it's always been Space Marines versus Xenos. Rogue Trader saw boxes of Space Marines paired with Space Orks. Second Edition was Black Templar and Dark Eldar. 3rd edition was Space Marines and Orks. 4th edition was Space Marines and Tyranids. 5th edition was Space Marines and Orks. (I may have gotten 2nd and 3rd mixed...) It's how they introduce players to the game.

I'm sorry, but for me, getting this stuff wrong really hurts your credibility.
Rogue Trader did not come in a box set; it was only a book, followed by a few supplements made up of collected White Dwarf articles. It baffles me how many people can't separate Rogue Trader from 2nd Edition.
2nd Edition was Space Marines (who didn't have that many chapter-specific rules yet; this changed later with the release of the first Codices, like Space Wolves, Ultramarines, and Angels of Death) vs. Orks
3rd Edition was (again) Space Marines vs. Dark Eldar.
4th Edition was (again) Space Marines vs. Tyranids.
5th Edition was (again) Space Marines vs. Orks (again).

[drbored]

None, but there are strong similarities between Tabitha and DrBored in the posting style especially the constant disclaimers and the role that they seem to play in adding credibility to the poster (rather the rumour substance) and the elaboration of the meeting with the source.

And, as stated I'm not aware of cases of second-hand "a guy I know who has connections told me" source that has proven to be substantial within the last couple of years. If that did happen we would be getting a lot more advanced info than we actually are apart from the tried and tested sources.

Given that we know that there are always more attention seekers on the internet than there are genuine 40k rumour sources (or almost any other group), what evidence do you have that there's a shred of truth in the rumour?

My online name is exclusively DrBored. I think you're grabbing at straws on that one there bub. You'll just have to take my word for it. Also, I wouldn't post it if I heard it from some red shirt or someone that pretends to be best buds with Matt Ward. If you don't believe it, fine, but guess what? Rumors seldom have a single shred of truth until they're proven right or wrong. Time will tell.

I very rarely post information on here, but many that know me from pm's will know I am rarely wrong. I just popped on the forum to see this thread and think that whilst I am sure you're heart is in the right place, this information is 100% wrong and whilst the forum encourages rumours, this thread not being closed is encouraging simply wrong information to be posted and discussed that will misinform people. By commenting that you're source knows people in the know this goes to further my point.

Put simply, this information is all wrong! I would absolutely love Eldar to be in the box and a codex this year, but this is not the case. The box is 100% as has been discussed and whilst I rarely post information, I do not like to see the wrong information put out there giving strong sources etc which result in misinforming people.

I would like to see your proof that disclaims everything I've said as 100% wrong. Please show me you shaking hands with the GW CEO with the 6th edition starter box in your hands. I'm posting a rumor that I heard from a person I trust who has strong ties to GW and Forgeworld. Take it or leave it, but seeing as this is a *rumor* discussion thread, I think it's premature to declare absolutes about what is right and wrong.

I for one have no idea of who you are or where you get your information. Similarly, you have no idea who I am and where I get my information. Your '100% wrong' statement is just as credible as my rumors posted here :P That's just the nature of the rumors forums and topics. We'll see who is right.

I'm sorry, but for me, getting this stuff wrong really hurts your credibility.
Rogue Trader did not come in a box set; it was only a book, followed by a few supplements made up of collected White Dwarf articles. It baffles me how many people can't separate Rogue Trader from 2nd Edition.
2nd Edition was Space Marines (who didn't have that many chapter-specific rules yet; this changed later with the release of the first Codices, like Space Wolves, Ultramarines, and Angels of Death) vs. Orks
3rd Edition was (again) Space Marines vs. Dark Eldar.
4th Edition was (again) Space Marines vs. Tyranids.
5th Edition was (again) Space Marines vs. Orks (again).

For this I apologize! I had heard that Rogue Trader came with two supplemental box sets, one being Space Marines, the other being Space Orks, so I had assumed that, when Rogue Trader started off, it was Space Marines vs. Orks. I also had a feeling that I got the 2nd and 3rd edition sets backwards, and admitted that. Also, the 3rd edition featured Black Templar as the chapter on the starter box.

The fact of the matter stands. It's always been Space Marines versus xenos.

Anyway, thanks for your replies and great work at keeping the discussion interesting! We've had all sorts of responses to this, from 'You're totally wrong' to 'Yep, you're totally right' to 'some of this is wrong but some of this is right'.

One thing a lot of people seem to be forgetting is that this is a rumor. A rumor that I posted based on information given to me by a man with a lot of connections in GW and Forgeworld. It's just as likely that he's fed me misinformation on behalf of GW, and I'm just a puppet in that design, but what he's told me rings with sense, whereas all this ******** of 'DA vs. Chaos' doesn't make any.

We'll see who is right and wrong over the next two months I think.

Edit:

Just to add some evidence (per Starchild's request) to DrBored's lack of credibility; back again on Dakka wyomingfox posted this:



So if that post was true then DrBored actually had this information (along with a lot of wrong information) eight months ago despite the fact that he seems to be claiming that his source was a recent conversation with several specific references to the "Autumn of Fliers".

At this point I'm going to stop claiming that he might be dishonest.

I was wondering if those things would crop up. Most of the information I got for those was from a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy. I didn't believe half of it, and repeatedly said to take a lot of salt with all that stuff.

The information I presented last night was from a conversation I had *that day* with a source who was not the same man as the one that gave me all that previous information. If you don't believe me, oh well, I can't make you. But, that's rumors for you. Until it happens, nobody will know. All I can say is that, on my scout's honor, I am not trying to deliberately be misleading or attention-grabbing. I wouldn't have posted if I didn't think there was substance to post.

[Dryaktylus]

I'm sorry, but for me, getting this stuff wrong really hurts your credibility.
Rogue Trader did not come in a box set; it was only a book, followed by a few supplements made up of collected White Dwarf articles. It baffles me how many people can't separate Rogue Trader from 2nd Edition.

Maybe he meant the boxes "Space Marine Strike Force" and "Space Ork Raiders" and mixed up second and third edition (as he suggested)?

Well, all the combinations of DA, Chaos and Eldar sound a bit strange... but time will tell.

[Faitfull]

It would be awesome that the xenos finally get a little love.

sometime one wonder if the grim dark furture among the stars, only truly holds spacemarines and their friends!

[drbored]

Touche, Dude, I didn't think about those points.

Well, logic'ing aside, the info that I got suggests DA/Eldar.. I'm not saying that's the gospel, but time will certainly tell!

[Maxis Lithium]

Hasting has allready said that it won't just be Chaos Marines in the core rules, but something else. and it's been indicated to not be demons. this leaves likely Cultists/Traitor humans which would not be power armored. I suspect your source is repeating the rumors from the other thread, rather then new information. As it is, If we are hearing about Necron in May, that mean (at least to me) that we won't see a new codex for 40K until after 6th ed drops into our hot little hands. I would like to be proven wrong on thi fact, but I fear I will be right.

I expect that your source is speculating, not gathering information from inside the company.

[drbored]

Hasting has allready said that it won't just be Chaos Marines in the core rules, but something else. and it's been indicated to not be demons. this leaves likely Cultists/Traitor humans which would not be power armored. I suspect your source is repeating the rumors from the other thread, rather then new information. As it is, If we are hearing about Necron in May, that mean (at least to me) that we won't see a new codex for 40K until after 6th ed drops into our hot little hands. I would like to be proven wrong on thi fact, but I fear I will be right.

I expect that your source is speculating, not gathering information from inside the company.

With Necron at the beginning of May, that leaves all the rest of May and June for a full Codex release before 6th edition drops in July like new editions tend to. Splash releases don't take up a full month. Empire released with the new paints a week before and decal sheets a week after.

And if he's repeating stuff that's already been said, doesn't that lend more credence to these particular rumors though?

[The Dude]

And if he's repeating stuff that's already been said, doesn't that lend more credence to these particular rumors though?

Not if he's just getting it from here

I've been told that Eldar have been the 2nd or 3rd best selling army after Space Marines in general and Imperial Guard (depending on the codex) since the 90s, from a variety of reliable sources over the past year (including past and present high-ups in GW). The idea that they have suddenly become GWs worst selling army strikes me as somewhat ridiculous. Not to mention B and C woudl basically contradict themselves, how would GW know Eldar have a huge fanbase if they don't sell well and why would they not sell well if they have a huge fanbase? Very few of the kits are dated to the extent you see in some other ranges and the plastic kits are abundant and excellent.

Indeed. Some of that seems to be assumption based on personal opinion.

[eldargal]

I've been told that Eldar have been the 2nd or 3rd best selling army after Space Marines in general and Imperial Guard (depending on the codex) since the 90s, from a variety of reliable sources over the past year (including past and present high-ups in GW). The idea that they have suddenly become GWs worst selling army strikes me as somewhat ridiculous. Not to mention B and C woudl basically contradict themselves, how would GW know Eldar have a huge fanbase if they don't sell well and why would they not sell well if they have a huge fanbase? Very few of the kits are dated to the extent you see in some other ranges and the plastic kits are abundant and excellent.

I've also been hearing from a few reliable rumourmongers that Eldar are firmly slotted in for next year, which doesn't necessarily mean they won't be in the starter.

I'd like for these rumours to be true but I can't help but be very skeptical, too much of the reasoning seems like speculation and assumptions.

Also, as for Eldar being a 'girl-getter' this seems to me like more fan speculation. Obviously I only have anecdotal evidence but I know close to thirty female games online and in person and Tyranids are the most popular choice, with Eldar, SoB, Orks, IG, DE and SM all being roughly equal.

[drbored]

I've been told that Eldar have been the 2nd or 3rd best selling army after Space Marines in general and Imperial Guard (depending on the codex) since the 90s, from a variety of reliable sources over the past year (including past and present high-ups in GW). The idea that they have suddenly become GWs worst selling army strikes me as somewhat ridiculous. Not to mention B and C woudl basically contradict themselves, how would GW know Eldar have a huge fanbase if they don't sell well and why would they not sell well if they have a huge fanbase? Very few of the kits are dated to the extent you see in some other ranges and the plastic kits are abundant and excellent.

I've also been hearing from a few reliable rumourmongers that Eldar are firmly slotted in for next year, which doesn't necessarily mean they won't be in the starter.

I'd like for these rumours to be true but I can't help but be very skeptical, too much of the reasoning seems like speculation and assumptions.

Simple. The Eldar have gained a massive fanbase from past releases, but over the past year or so, they have been the worst selling army. A lot of people love them, but those people have typically had their Eldar for a lot longer. People that ask 'should I start Eldar?' are met with 'No, because it's old and full of metal/finecast and hasn't gotten an update.' It was that way with Dark Eldar. When people asked 'should I start DE?' people replied 'No, wait for the update'.

So, since the 90's, I'm sure you're right, Eldar have sold very well. Take a look at those trends since 2005 though. The popularity in sales drops off.

I will be honest, I was not looking forward to the 2 power armor starter box idea. I thought that if it were to happen that way though, they would include daemons in the box as part of the Chaos choice, maybe some cultist/traitor guardsmen, and one squad of plague/noise/beserkers/thousand suns marines. DA vs. Eldar would be interesting, but being a game marketed for kids, the hero's/HQ choices would have to be able to take each other on one on one and be a fair fight. Currently, Eldar HQ choices can't take on a Marine captain of any flavor without being a named character.

It doesn't make sense to me with DA and Eldar in the starter box, but then again neither does Chaos. None of the 3 armies have had a codex update recently and there are no concrete rumors, other than yours, that we will even get another codex before 6th. To my understanding, every time GW releases the starter box, both armies are updated within a couple months. For Black Reach, the Orks got a new codex right before 5th, and Marines got theirs a month after. I can't speak for the other starter sets as I wasn't playing at that time.

Honestly it would suprise me less for GK and Chaos of some sorts in the starter set. GK is a solid (dare I say overpowered) codex that just got updated last year, and Chaos could be released right after 6th drops. Thats just speculation however.

However, I will eat my words if Eldar show up in the starter, and I will bow to GW if Tau are in the starter.

Key point is highlighted in bold. Eldar would be updated within the next couple of months, just like Space Marines were for 5th edition.

[Vaktathi]

Hrm, no Chaos until 2013 would make me a sad panda, and would seem to contradict a lot of what we've been hearing lately.

That said, I'd also really like any starter box to *not* be DA's vs CSM's, that just doesn't sound like a good starter, though as noted, trying to find logic in GW's decision making process of late is...difficult.

Also, as for Eldar being a 'girl-getter' this seems to me like more fan speculation. Obviously I only have anecdotal evidence but I know close to thirty female games online and in person and Tyranids are the most popular choice, with Eldar, SoB, Orks, IG, DE and SM all being roughly equal.

While I do not necessarily disagree with your point, your username and avatar in this case would seem to be rather ironic and indicate otherwise

[eldargal]

I'm aware. I'm not saying girls don't collect Eldar, obviously we do, I'm just saying they are far from being a 'girl-getter' as far as my experience goes, and apparently others as a lot of people have said much the same things, namely that tyranids are the more popular choice with female gamers.

While I do not necessarily disagree with your point, your username and avatar in this case would seem to be rather ironic and indicate otherwise

[Shas'O'Stormblade]

I will be honest, I was not looking forward to the 2 power armor starter box idea. I thought that if it were to happen that way though, they would include daemons in the box as part of the Chaos choice, maybe some cultist/traitor guardsmen, and one squad of plague/noise/beserkers/thousand suns marines. DA vs. Eldar would be interesting, but being a game marketed for kids, the hero's/HQ choices would have to be able to take each other on one on one and be a fair fight. Currently, Eldar HQ choices can't take on a Marine captain of any flavor without being a named character.

It doesn't make sense to me with DA and Eldar in the starter box, but then again neither does Chaos. None of the 3 armies have had a codex update recently and there are no concrete rumors, other than yours, that we will even get another codex before 6th. To my understanding, every time GW releases the starter box, both armies are updated within a couple months. For Black Reach, the Orks got a new codex right before 5th, and Marines got theirs a month after. I can't speak for the other starter sets as I wasn't playing at that time.

Honestly it would suprise me less for GK and Chaos of some sorts in the starter set. GK is a solid (dare I say overpowered) codex that just got updated last year, and Chaos could be released right after 6th drops. Thats just speculation however.

However, I will eat my words if Eldar show up in the starter, and I will bow to GW if Tau are in the starter.

[AlphariusOmegon20]

I will be honest, I was not looking forward to the 2 power armor starter box idea. I thought that if it were to happen that way though, they would include daemons in the box as part of the Chaos choice, maybe some cultist/traitor guardsmen, and one squad of plague/noise/beserkers/thousand suns marines. DA vs. Eldar would be interesting, but being a game marketed for kids, the hero's/HQ choices would have to be able to take each other on one on one and be a fair fight. Currently, Eldar HQ choices can't take on a Marine captain of any flavor without being a named character.

It doesn't make sense to me with DA and Eldar in the starter box, but then again neither does Chaos. None of the 3 armies have had a codex update recently and there are no concrete rumors, other than yours, that we will even get another codex before 6th. To my understanding, every time GW releases the starter box, both armies are updated within a couple months. For Black Reach, the Orks got a new codex right before 5th, and Marines got theirs a month after. I can't speak for the other starter sets as I wasn't playing at that time.

Honestly it would suprise me less for GK and Chaos of some sorts in the starter set. GK is a solid (dare I say overpowered) codex that just got updated last year, and Chaos could be released right after 6th drops. Thats just speculation however.

However, I will eat my words if Eldar show up in the starter, and I will bow to GW if Tau are in the starter.

Actually there IS some of a precendent for both armies to appear in the box without having updated codexes. Just look at AoBR. Orks dropped towards the end of the year IIRC before the box came out. But SM dropped after the AoBR box did.

So GW has releassed armies that did not have updated codexes before. ( I believe 4th did the same thing also with 'Nids)

[Avian]

I would think that one reason for not going power armour vs power armour is that the forces would be quite difficult to tell apart unpainted. So to make it more visual and more engaging, they want quite different silhouettes.