White Lion or Phoenix Guard Horde??

[Trains_Get_Robbed]

^^^ It depends on context within your list. As my prior dissertation attempted to explained the main problem is: BoTWD more easily ran and S9 is greater than S6, hence P.G are better. Furthermore to be honest, Spears don't even see the field for competitive lists until 2,400 points, and even then, if I'm buffing spears then I'm doing something wrong (like not getting my mage out in time, throwing them into a combat that I underestimated, already down a ton of V.Ps, etc. . .). In addition, like you even mentioned in your post, W.L's would need LoL/LoH to keep them alive correct? Well there is nothing in either of those lores to buff core troops anyways, there is in Shadow however, thus I can have multiple combats going on, and not have to worry about the "Rule of One" with H.E target priority and can get those spears withtering for them. In H.E case, our best defense is most often a good offense, their like the Philly Flyers, they have Bryz in net (T3) but score like it's the 80's (ASF S3>T2).

[cptcosmic]

PG with shadow lore => reducing enemy toughness or making them S9
WL with lore of light => reducing numbers of hits and giving WL 2 attacks.

[Duke Ramulots]

Why?




All wrong. Chosenstar are the only other horde that stand up to Lions, and even then, they still get screwed over by chance often enough. Anything else gets eaten by the Lions to the point that they can't do enough damage back (unless of course they cost significantly more for a lot more bodies, in which case your point is still moot). What other hordes have ward saves are you claim, cause all I see else is Daemons. As for Empire having multiple elite hordes; what army book are you looking at? Sorry mate, but hyperbole isn't an argument. Waves of elites in every army is there? People who don't agree with you don't play the unit do they?

This isnt true at all, savage orc big unz eat white lions for lunch. Yes they will take 15 or so casualties on the first round but will still have 50 S5 attacks comming back killing almost every white lion. Hell even Dryads do well against them with their 5+ ward and I6 denying rerols to hit.

[Rosstifer]

This isnt true at all, savage orc big unz eat white lions for lunch. Yes they will take 15 or so casualties on the first round but will still have 50 S5 attacks comming back killing almost every white lion.

Unless the High Elf Player Book of Hoeth Pit of Shades the Savage Orc's twice. Happened to my mate in a Tournament. I hate the Book. Not a big fan of Sorc Bigun's either though, TBH!

[Duke Ramulots]

Unless the High Elf Player Book of Hoeth Pit of Shades the Savage Orc's twice. Happened to my mate in a Tournament. I hate the Book. Not a big fan of Sorc Bigun's either though, TBH!

That wasnt really the question was it? Of corse there are other things on the battlefield that can kill the orcs.

[bigbear bailey]

Why on earth is this so hotly contested? It's all about context.

Phoenix Guard are lacking offensive punch. They absorb wounds like you wouldn't believe, however they lack the ability to punch through armoured or high toughness models. They are also not stubborn, which means a flank charge could cost you a silly number of points if you're fielding a horde. They are also extremely vulnerable to Dweller's Below - opponents from other tables will come over just to cast it on your horde.

White Lions have good offense on their own, and are stubborn, lowering the risk from taking a bad charge. However, they're also as vulnerable as any elf to things like impact hits or other ASF attacks. Essentially anything that can take the wind out of their sails offensively also takes their defense down as well (see: the best defense is a good offense).

With the above in mind:

A Phoenix Guard horde needs to be built with its weaknesses in mind - a stubborn character and a BSB wielding the Banner of the World Dragon is ideal to protect your sizeable points investment.

A White Lion horde needs to be built with defense in mind. Some form of magical support to protect your investment from the inevitability of Chariots/Lore of Light opponents.

And thus we see that each unit has its own strengths and vulnerabilities requiring support from the rest of your choices. This is what Olannon is arguing: Each is good in the right situation, and each is bad in the wrong situation. It's up to us to use our brains and build the rest of our list to support the unit and make sure it's in the right situation as much as possible.

Hence the comments about Mindrazor and Phoenix Guard - this is one of the most right situations they could be in.

D

I agree that they are both great in their roles, but this isn't about which is the best horde. To me horde screams kills, so thus white lions.

And Olannon's not saying anything about that on this site at all. He came on, stated a bunch of crap assuming that he would get a spell off, and then called everyone retarded on a situation that may not happen every time. Thus the hate on him lol