The Emperor's Gift: Discussion

[MarcusAurelius]

Found the book to be an engaging read with a very intriguing main character.
Only complaints
1. The ending felt rushed. The transition was too abrupt.
2. The characterization of the inquisitor and her retinue fell flat for me
3. A bit too much glorification of the wolves after the showdown with Angron. The wolves tend to get a lot of love from BL authors. They kinda stole the show here, outshone the GK in their own book. This last complain has nothing to do with the writing quality. I'm simply more of a GK fan than a SW fan.

[shadowhawk2008]

This is one case of "rushed endings" where I don't think the ending is rushed in that it is rushed along by the author because he or she is running out of space. Bjorn's intervention and the sudden cessation of hostilities was entirely on the money. Things had simply gone TOO far and immediate steps needed to be taken to make sure things didn't REALLY get out of hand.

I mean, we get to the point where the Inquisition brings an entire SM chapter to exterminatus Fenris and Logan goes on a killing rampage on the Inquisitorial flagship and almost kills the two prominent GKs who are present.

Not sure what you meant by the transition though. Between the fight on the Frostborn and the war on Armageddon?

Annika and her henchmen were never the focus of the novel. They were there to provide insight, and often commentary, on the Grey Knights themselves, as represented by Squad Castian and, limitedly, Joros. Giving them a greater focus would have just taken away from the experience. As such, they were fine. Would have been nice to see more but the novel is just fine without it too.

And that's the entire point. The Space Wolves were doing the Good-Good thing while the Inquisition was doing the Good-Chaos thing (or whatever that whole meme is). It all highlights the important differences between Kysnaros' Inquisition + Grey Knights versus the Space Wolves. The Space Wolves are spectacular yes, but they are doing what any "normal" movie-hero does. As an imperfect example, I offer Lincoln-Six-Echo from The Island.

http://thefoundingfields.com/2012/05...ft-shadowhawk/

[ominus]

I got a good giggle from the shower scene when the "dirty hippie" chick says "what a waste" when she sees Hyperion nude. A nice jab at all space marines (besides the wolves) are castrated.

Over all it was an amazing book, and I never would have guessed Angron would. E that damn big!!

[shadowhawk2008]

Wait what... what page is this??

[ominus]

At work now, but I will try and find the page number tonight.

[dienekes96]

I remember the comment, but nothing was said of castration. I think the "what a waste" comment was more in regards to the monk-like nature of the Marines/GKs.

[Ithaka]

Yeah, nothing about castration was implied. It continued the theme of Hyperion, a kick-ass Grey Knight being comically naive when it comes to human interaction. And added a layer of characterisation to the Attillan woman, who'd decided to perve on him (Thats how I imagined it unfolding, anyway. Why else would an Attillan go near a shower?).

Additionally, if anyone has a later version of the novel, what was the Badab reference replaced with?

[Xisor]

85% through,

"Bizarrely, the Khatan had declared, upon seeing me wash mysef, that my ascension to knighthood was 'a great shame'. Captain Castor had explained the meaning to me several months later, though I still didn't see the humour in it."

To put it lightly - the castration isn't the actual snipping off of genitalia - otherwise the Khatan's comment would be meaningless. The indication, by my reading, is that Hyperion's well-hung indeed. It shouldn't need spelling out. The problem is that, as a knight, he is completely, effectively castrated. Sexually attractive thoughts just don't occur. That's mentioned throughout too - he can objectively read 'attraction', but there's no sexual tension. Indeed, there's a complete absence of it, as far as Hyperion is concerned. He can detect it in the behaviour of others, but for himself? It's gone.

Hence the waste.

(Chemical and psychological castration seems 'about right' in principle.)

[Lupe]

It should be worth mentioning that the author makes a note of the psychological castration as well

The Dreadnought stepped back, releasing her cheek. ‘No finer sight on any world than a frostborn maiden. Especially a beauty with black hair. Rare back when I had eyes to stare, and surely even rarer now.’
I stared at the towering figure, wondering if there was some difference in the process by which gene-seed was once cultivated compared to the method now. He seemed to be able to determine that Annika was attractive. I wasn’t sure I could make that perception myself...

[shadowhawk2008]

That is one of the most moving moments in the entire novel. Makes you really feel sad for Bjorn. The guy has lost so much since the Heresy.

[DDM]

I don't necessarily agree with DDM, but if you read his post again you'll see that he was talking about the entire novel and the events of Armageddon within that context, not the battle with Angron as a singular event. As in, it's not that they suffered such huge casualties on Armageddon - but that their previous attempt at banishing the taint of the Wolf ship didn't go particularly well either, nor did their encounters with a certain other chapter.

Personally, having a tough time against Chaos doesn't bother me. That's how it should be.

Apologies. In my attempt to avoid spoilers, I was too vague. I was specifically referring to:

The debacle with the Wolves. The GK and the Inq run around trying to run damage control while the SW run interference, kill a Grandmaster, and teleport on to an Inq ship and execute an inquisitor and a bunch of GK. It just felt like the GK spent the rest of the book getting punked. As to the other parts, yeah, a lot of GK die, but that's the job description. Lots of heroic last stands and pyrrhic victories, all in in effort to hold back the darkness for just one more day. It's why I like them so much.

[Wyrmwood]

Apologies. In my attempt to avoid spoilers, I was too vague. I was specifically referring to:

The debacle with the Wolves. The GK and the Inq run around trying to run damage control while the SW run interference, kill a Grandmaster, and teleport on to an Inq ship and execute an inquisitor and a bunch of GK. It just felt like the GK spent the rest of the book getting punked. As to the other parts, yeah, a lot of GK die, but that's the job description. Lots of heroic last stands and pyrrhic victories, all in in effort to hold back the darkness for just one more day. It's why I like them so much.

Thanks for the clarification, DDM.

[Lupe]

[...] It just felt like the GK spent the rest of the book getting punked. [...]

Grey Knights are highly trained specialists, with a very rigid modus operandi, and the puritan Inquisitor leading them is not particularly open minded either.
It would be a gross understatement to say they're facing unforeseen circumstances, because that does not even begin to cover the situation.
The whole situation is new to them. They're faced with Astartes who act and plan like humans, and who are far more aware of humanity's hopes and fears and reactions. Even more so, they're facing Astartes who value creative thinking, eschew the rules, are known for breaking the rules, and are completely unwilling to back down. Of course they're going to be way out of their damned element. Of course they're being punked. It's a logical and natural side effect of their very nature and conditioning.

[dienekes96]

I read it as they were doing their duty, no more. They have no interest in being "top dogs". They have no interest in engaging with the Space Wolves. Quite the opposite. They would prefer not to, but not out of fear of war with the Wolves. Out of reticence for what the loss of a FF Chapter would be, out of the implications of such a decision.

I don't think there is any doubt that the GK could have shredded the Wolves, nor any doubt on Grimnar's side on that outcome either.

They aren't being punked, but rather put into an unwinnable situation by dogma and zealotry. If they were told: go defeat the Wolves...they would have done so. I never doubted their power in the book. It had been demonstrably shown enough times.

[MajorWesJanson]

I read it as they were doing their duty, no more. They have no interest in being "top dogs". They have no interest in engaging with the Space Wolves. Quite the opposite. They would prefer not to, but not out of fear of war with the Wolves. Out of reticence for what the loss of a FF Chapter would be, out of the implications of such a decision.

I don't think there is any doubt that the GK could have shredded the Wolves, nor any doubt on Grimnar's side on that outcome either.

They aren't being punked, but rather put into an unwinnable situation by dogma and zealotry. If they were told: go defeat the Wolves...they would have done so. I never doubted their power in the book. It had been demonstrably shown enough times.

I got that feel too. The GK were following orders, but seemingly halfheartedly. They did not want to fight the Solves, but it was their duty to, so they did. If it had been a fight they felt was important, like against Angron, they could have simply sent a kill team against Grimnar himself. It really shows that the Inquisiton got the Red Hunters involved, in addition to the Grey Knights, especially when the original goal was to limit the spread of knowledge.

[shadowhawk2008]

The Red Hunters have a "close" relationship with the Inquisition however, according to in-setting lore. Also, I don't remember reading that the Red Hunters were told WHY the Wolves needed to be contained. They were given their orders and they jumped at the chance to show down a First Founding Chapter.

The limit of knowledge for which the Space Wolves ARE being contained is that they prevented the deaths of all the Guardsmen who fought on Armageddon and they were fighting back against the Inquisition. The Red Hunters need only know the second part.

[Spider-pope]

Mars priesthood specifically requisitioned by Ordo Malleus.
just an idea

Which is fine and dandy right up until Techpriest Garry is cleaning a Razorback and discovers that some Daemonic residue has managed to possess a sparkplug, which then convinces him the Machine God wants him to overload a fusion reactor on Titan.

The Grey Knights need their own Techmarines because chances are any damage done to their vehicles and wargear is going to be daemon related. The risk of inadvertently corrupting the less resistant is too great.

[Lupe]

I'm not sure the message got across just right. Astartes of any flavour like to have specialists drawn from their own recruit pool. Why? Because you really, really, really want the guys with valuable knowledge a) to benefit from the same gene-enhanced resilience and combat prowess as the rest of the Chapter and b) be bound by the same vows of loyalty - to Chapter, Primarch, Emperor and who knows what else - as the rest of the battle-brothers

[dienekes96]

That said, the Red Hunters dodged a bullet. If the TSons couldn't take the Fang, those clowns would have been shredded. But not the GK.

[Poncho160]

If I remember right they weren't going to take the Fang, they were going to do it Aliens style, "Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."