[Commission] Macross / Robotech Destroid Tomahawk (Preproduction)

[winterdyne]

Painted this up - it's one of a number of pre-production prototypes I'll be painting up. I won't name the client in case they don't want it bandying around just yet.... If anyone from Studio Nue or Harmony Gold sees this, drop me an email - the client is desparate to sort out licensing for these to put them into full production for a wargame.

Anyway, it's a nice little kit, I've worked on a few different models of this design, and I have to say this is one of the nicer ones - clean detail without being cluttered. Went from bare resin to finished inside of 5 hours (including cleaning and drying it).

[jasdc1]

Battletech mini?

[andyg2006]

Yeah, you should let them know that this is an exact copy of the Battletech Warhammer mech (which is one of the most recognisable designs in their whole series), so another company will already have the copyright on this design (Ral Partha/FASA/whoever owns Battletech now)...whoever wants to put this into production will almost certainly get into big trouble for (essentially) stealing other people's ideas.

It's not your fault, but that company really should know better...Battletech has been around for 20+years and their designs are well known all around the world, so it's not like they can say that they made it independently.
In fact, this Battlemech was the one on the front of the Battletech box for years, so it's images have been in hobby stores and in the public domain asa registered design for a very long time.

[winterdyne]

Actually no. The battletech mini is the copy, which is why it's not like this any more.

The mech itself was designed for the japanese animation 'Super Dimensional Fortress: Macross'. IIRC, it's a Shoji Kawamori design. This animation was licensed by Harmony Gold for use in the 'Robotech' syndication (around 1983 I think), which in turn was ripped off directly by FASA for some Battlemech designs (along with numerous other animations such as Dougram). Licensing warfare erupted and now the mechs that were nicked have been redacted. You'll sometimes hear these referred to as 'unseen' mechs.

This miniature is an original production of the existing Macross design. I've worked on pretty much every variant of this design (including the Battletech version, which has some extremely minor changes from the animation line art), and can tell you outright that there's not another like this.

[greenmtvince]

I thought Miyatake designed the destroids where Kawamori did most of the Valkyries and some of the background designs (like the 6-wheeled cars.)

Anyway, the licensing thing isn't going to happen because the question of who can license the original series legal equivalent of the Korean DMZ.

Goto the Macrossworld.com forums and you can see the current state of the licensing issue. FASA licesened a lot of the designs from Harmony Gold in the mid 80s for Battletech, which licensed Macross from Tatsunoko productions (eventually turning it into Robotech with two other transforming mecha shows when no network would buy a 36 episode cartoon series.) Studio Nue/Big West challenged Harmony Gold's claim to the IP in the mid 90s on the grounds that Tatsunoko in exchange for funding the original series only had distribution rights to the show, not any of the trademarks therein. Harmony Gold is of course fighting it, because Robotech and the licensing is still their cash cow.

This issue is why you've never seen any of the Macross sequels licesnced outside of Japan with the exception of Macross II and Macross Plus which kind of snuck in during th early 90s when Harmony Gold didn't have any cash to fund a legal defense.

[winterdyne]

Wasn't sure, just knew it was originally done for Macross.

Yeah, I occasionally visit Macrossworld. Love my 1/48 Valkyrie. That sites responsible for me getting the urge to dismantle and repaint a £120+ toy. And oh, it was fun. :-)

I believe HG can still license games for Robotech - Robotech Battlecry was a relatively recent example. The client's certainly in touch with HG, but would *really* like the SN license if possible (it may be the game would have to be 'officially' sold in Japan) as it would give access to all the Macross Zero designs as well, which if you think about it, many would be used in the first Zentraedi conflict. But yeah, it's a legally very confused situation. The main problem is the fact that Studio Nue have very little contact information available (not so much a case of being stonewalled, as stuck on the wrong side of a moat), especially in English. A Japanese fluent person is required I think.

But I'm just painting the cool toys. Got another few Tomahawks to do, then some Regults. I think I'll be sent a few of everything sooner or later (can haz Monster? Plz?) which'll be fun.

[andyg2006]

I think I'm a bit dazed and confused:
So, the Battletech art in the 3025 book (which looks exactly like this) was just stolen from Macross and alleged/purported to be a Battletech design. Then, when the Battletech miniature (which looks like this) came out, it was actually just a copy of someone else's design which they didn't have the rights to anyway?

Ta for the history lesson and consider me suitably chastised...happy to bring my brand of ignorance to this corner of Warseer :-(

Nice painting anyway, though.

[jasdc1]

Had a few of the robotech battletech minis. Think the only one I have left is the valkyrie in guardian mode

[winterdyne]

Yes, basically, or that a license / permission was given by the incorrect party. (eg Harmony Gold vs Studio Nue / Big West) The licensing behind Robotech / Macross is very convoluted, with regards to who owns rights to what in which regions.

[greenmtvince]

I'd suggest he (is it Paulson?) contact Studio Half Eye or Yellow Submarine to see how they got the licensing for their garage resin kits or perhaps work some deal with them to be a distributor since they already have the rights to do Macross resin kits. I visited the Yellow Submarine offices in Akihabara and I think Studio Half-Eye is based there as well.

In any case, the painting looks great! It evokes images of a long range patrol wandering the wastelands of earth following the first space war.

[winterdyne]

I'm still tweaking the paintjob, just fixing some small details. But yeah, post-invasion wasteland was what I was going for. Might do some smashed up highway on one of the bases so I can put some signs or something to reinforce the scale.

[winterdyne]

Some tweaks to the Tomahawk:



A Regult Tactical Pod:



Both together to show sizes:

[floyd pinkerton]

Looking very nice, just seen them on TGN. Can I ask if you have any more to do or would that be cheeky

Would like to see a Robotech game, partially so I can use the models for "unseen" units in Battletech, even though they are slightly larger.

[Lars Porsenna]

There's a little misinformation going on here...

The situation with Battletech is much more convoluted.

When Battletech first launched (called Battledroids -- which FASA got a cease and desist from Lucas due to the use of the term "droid"), they had approached Twentieth Century Imports (TCI for short), as this was one of the main importers of Japanese anime kits into the US*, including many of the Macross and Dougram kits. FASA secured an agreement from TCI to use the imagery in the game, and FASA at the time felt they were using these images in good faith and legally. The only problem was that TCI had no such authority to enter into such a license.

Things were fine for a number of years. FASA felt they were legally using these images, and were too small to show up on the radars of these larger corporations. Things change though; FASA had grown, launched a very successful novel line, the game was supported by minis and lots of other paraphrenalia, and in the late '80s/early '90s 3 successful computer games (Mechwarrior series). Around the mid '90s, a toy company that had been producing licensed toys for HG's Robotech line came out with a toy that was highly derivative of the Battletech MadCat mech. FASA sued for copyright infringement, the toy company in their research discovered that many of the old Battletech mechs were almost exact copies of HG's Robotech imagery, and HG countersued for copyright infringement.

Eventually all parties would settle out of court, but part of the agreement was that FASA would stop using the Macross imagery. To be safe, they also pulled all the Dougram imagery, Crusher Joe imagery (IIRC the Locust and Samurai fighter were the only ones affected, the Corsair fighter and Leopard dropship were felt to be "sufficiently different") as well as many of the 3rd party designs they had licensed, just to be safe from future litigation.

Rumor has it that the legal costs and stress from all of this would be one of the reasons FASA folded 5 years later...

But nice paintjobs, I would love to see these go into production, not just as a Battletech fan, but also as a fan of Macross (NOT Robotech which IMHO was a hackjob...)...

Damon.

* The other big on was Revell, a name that should be instantly recognizable by anyone that has built models in the US. They were also importing many of the Macross and Dougram kits as well, but reboxed -- under the Robotech label. HG would later approach Revell and the two would come to an agreement that the new HG import would eventually be called Robotech.

[Whitwort Stormbringer]

Whoa, supercool! I'm a huge fan of Robotech, mostly for nostalgia factor I suppose. I was aware of some of the designs that were similar to the Robotech destroids (which have popped up a few times, most recently that I'd seen as toys in the Exo-Squad line, of which I own a few), but always held back from seriously attempting any Robotech gaming due to the lack of Zentraedi to go up against them. If these do ever go into production I'll be all over them.

[CarbonCopy]

When can I get me some of these?!?

[winterdyne]

As far as I'm aware, so far HG are making positive noises, and good bonds are being formed with Palladium Books (who have the rights for the Robotech RPG). Assuming all goes well, a US release is on the cards. Worldwide, however, is another kettle of fish, with Studio Nue / Big West owning all rights to Macross imagery and designs. It depends on the nature of the license issued by Harmony Gold. Messy. I'm glad I'm just painting the things. :-)

In terms of release of the models - they won't be put into any meaningful production until the licensing is sorted out.