Invent a Rule!

[Urgat]

Reality isn't like that anyway. In reality, you won't find 5 riders able to break 40 soldiers, no matter the era.

[panic_puppet]

Not an "invent", more of a tweak - I'd bring the crumbling rules for TK and VC more in line with what the Daemons have. In an edition where big blocks of troops are the order of the day, it just seems to screw the undead over a little. "I lose by 12, but I'm steadfast, and my general and BSB are there - leadership 10 with a re-roll" vs "I lose by 12, but I'm undead, so I lose another quarter of my unit". Especially since fear doesn't really seem to have an effect any more, again due to generals and battle standards, and the sheer amount of things that are immune to psychology (played a 3.5k tourney this week, played against HE, Lizards and DE, and I think my opponents had to take a fear test twice over all 3 games). The penalty just seems a little over the top; taking a leadership test (with modifiers) and then losing models equal to the number you fail by would represent the level of control the TK/Hiero/Vamp has over the army.

[Židrek]

And while i myself dont use much cavalery i dont like that a cavalery charge cannot break ranked unit, it goes completely against reality. If you didnt bring pikes/logn spears and the enemy showed up with cavalery you were screwed. (and yes i remember the battle of Agincourt, that just proves if your general is a ***** you can lose any battle)

In reality even if you don't have pole weapons, unless your cavalry had the numbers to really smash into them, you would just have had infantry encircle the horses and then pull them off and killing them. Of course I would say sure as long as I can equip my infantry with caltrops http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caltrop

And tell me of glorious and great French general, what would you have done at Agincourt? The Long Bows out ranged the french, their horses couldn't get past the barricades and the English were also all on foot with strategically selected positioning. So you dismounted your Knights and have them all fight on foot they still took large casualties before they reached the British, their formation would have been disrupted by the stakes and the British would be facing them on more equal terms due to the fact that they couldn't swarm over them. In addition to this the ground was very muddy and clung to the feet of the infantry and horses so the French would have been tired while trying to close the distance.

[hazmiter]

That's why the Damn French needed ballistae!!!!!!!

[Urgat]

What does Agincourt have anything to do with anything in this topic?

[The bearded one]

What does Agincourt have anything to do with anything in this topic?

it's a total disaster

[Urgat]

Ah, clever.

[quietus1986]

Random bonce deretion for cannon shots. seems like fun ball boncing back

[yabbadabba]

What does Agincourt have anything to do with anything in this topic?

People like confusing Warhammer with reality.

[quietus1986]

5 bloodknights kan brack 40 state troops. but I think my knights almost costs more than 40 state troops.

[Far2Casual]

Swarms not unstable.

[zlydon]

^ Agreed.

I'd like to change Tomb Scorpion's unit size to 1+, imagine a block of 4 of them appearing behind you(!)

[TheDungen]

Yeah ok 5 knights shouldnt break 40 men. But then maybe knights should cost less points? So you can field a unit that would break 40 men (like 15-25 knights) without that being half your army. Knights in heavy armour is meant to be a battering ram not flankers


I also have another idea that i'm sure some people wont like Unit getting shot at from the flank or rear subtract the number of wounds that the shooting caused from their next movement, the subtraction being made after calculating the distance from marching or charging. This will make light cavalery and skirmishers usefull again. though less usefull than they used to be. (They can only shoot at one unit per turn and even then that unit will have to be quite squishy for them to cause 4 wounds which is what a standard unit lost from not being bale to march). But if done correctly it could stop the enemy from getting that crucial charge in. (or delay that deathstar so it wont have as many turns in combat as it wanted to, encouraging people to spread their points more evenly across their army)

[The Low King]

Yeah ok 5 knights shouldnt break 40 men. But then maybe knights should cost less points? So you can field a unit that would break 40 men (like 15-25 knights) without that being half your army. Knights in heavy armour is meant to be a battering ram not flankers


I also have another idea that i'm sure some people wont like Unit getting shot at from the flank or rear subtract the number of wounds that the shooting caused from their next movement, the subtraction being made after calculating the distance from marching or charging. This will make light cavalery and skirmishers usefull again. though less usefull than they used to be. (They can only shoot at one unit per turn and even then that unit will have to be quite squishy for them to cause 4 wounds which is what a standard unit lost from not being bale to march). But if done correctly it could stop the enemy from getting that crucial charge in. (or delay that deathstar so it wont have as many turns in combat as it wanted to, encouraging people to spread their points more evenly across their army)

Love the idea. My Gyro will have tonnes of fun blasting units in the flank with his flame template. 'Bloodletters? oh noes, you can only move a inch'

Arnt the new empire cavalry just over 20 points? so 20 of them costs as much as a horde of greatswords

[TheDungen]

True but you'll have to be pretty close to use that so the risk is that if you fail to cause as many wounds they'll just do reform and charge your gyrocopter. and doesn't bloodletter have a wardsave?

The rule have some drawbacks of course it'll be a little to bloody against units that cant march. Undead for an example (deamons?). Maybe it should be a psychology thing so only units affected by psychology would be affected? If its still to OP it could be that a unit will have to make a leadership test on a leadership modified by the number of wounds they've taken and if they fail they cant march.

[yabbadabba]

Arnt the new empire cavalry just over 20 points? so 20 of them costs as much as a horde of greatswords

Empire Combat Cav have always been more than 20pts mate.

[The bearded one]

they'll just do reform and charge your gyrocopter.

You.. you can't reform and then charge..

and doesn't bloodletter have a wardsave?

T3 and a 5+ warrdsave. I think a flying gyrocopter with its str3 flametemplate can land right next to it and cause a decent number of wounds.


I think my lizardmen would just become insane with such a rule, as I have 50 skinks running around the field, 10 of which are scouts so are often in the flank or rear anyway. Slowing enemy units down, even by just 2-3 inches, gives me seas of time to throw salamander templates left and right, and magic them straight to Morr.

[The Low King]

True but you'll have to be pretty close to use that so the risk is that if you fail to cause as many wounds they'll just do reform and charge your gyrocopter. and doesn't bloodletter have a wardsave?

Its a S3 flame template, will still hit a lot.
I would love it if they reform, i will just fly over and shoot them from the other side

The rule have some drawbacks of course it'll be a little to bloody against units that cant march. Undead for an example (deamons?). Maybe it should be a psychology thing so only units affected by psychology would be affected? If its still to OP it could be that a unit will have to make a leadership test on a leadership modified by the number of wounds they've taken and if they fail they cant march.

I think it will be a little powerful with shooting heavy armies

[The Low King]

Empire Combat Cav have always been more than 20pts mate.

Sorry, should have said: 'have been reduced to just over 20 points' or 'reduced to almost 20 points'

thats what i meant.

[TheDungen]

As said only from the flank or rear so it still have to be fast cavalry skirmishers or fliers. I'm however willing to make an exception for template based weapons since that seems to be a little too effective.

And instead of telling me how you'd exploit it make an attempt to fix it so it cant as easily be exploited, or some up with another way to make skirmishers and fast cavalry useful again.