Pigeon Bomb Squads?

[Master Of Fate]

(p31)"Pigeon Bombs: A Master Engineer with Pigeon Bombs can use them instead of firing a weapon in the Shooting phase. When a Master Engineer declares he will be using Pigeon Bombs, nominate any enemy model within 24", roll a D6 and consult the following chart:"

So Pigeon Bombs ....
~can move and be used
~doesn't need line of sight
~doesn't count as firing a weapon so has no targeting restriction, such as into cc


So these things can sit behind my wall of spears pooping on the enemy while they are engaged ?


This is posted on page 27 of the Empire Tactics Thread but I want a wider audience than what make it to that point. Is this legal ? can anyone find anything against this?

[Yowzo]

Correct on all three counts.

There's only a 1/3 chance the pigeon will actually hit, and a 1/6 that it hits the engineer instead so it's far from reliable, though.

[Mike45]

Correct on all three counts.

There's only a 1/3 chance the pigeon will actually hit, and a 1/6 that it hits the engineer instead so it's far from reliable, though.

And just keep him nice and close to your units for a look out sir on a 4+.

[Imperial Vampire]

Correct on all three counts.

There's only a 1/3 chance the pigeon will actually hit, and a 1/6 that it hits the engineer instead so it's far from reliable, though.

Although it is a little bit more reliable than any round template war machines, excluding runed-up dwarf catapults. You have a net 33% chance of a direct hit with the pidgeon, but only about 28% (33% * 5/6, because bullseye + misfire = misfire anyway) of a direct hit with catapult-like war machines. Both have a 1/6 chance of a misfire though...
(PS: But I don't take into account 2'' scatters from catapults, which are not technically a "direct hit", but very much alike. On the other hand, I don't take into account wild 10'' scatters that hit your own troops neither, two opposite results that will never happen with a pidgeon...)

[Gamu]

Can you send a pigeon and givs bs4 t a hellblaster in the same turn? in the pigeon boms rules says you do that instead of shooting, but RAW send a pigeon is not shooting as you noted before. On the other hand, giving BS4 and a rerroll to a hellblaster cannot be done if you shoot, but if pigeons are not shooting, then RAW you could do both things at the same time.

Am I right?

[theunwantedbeing]

Can you send a pigeon and givs bs4 t a hellblaster in the same turn? in the pigeon boms rules says you do that instead of shooting, but RAW send a pigeon is not shooting as you noted before. On the other hand, giving BS4 and a rerroll to a hellblaster cannot be done if you shoot, but if pigeons are not shooting, then RAW you could do both things at the same time.

Am I right?

You can either shoot, send a pigeon bomb or grant your bs4 to a nearby machine.

[T10]

I would assume that "instead of firing a weapon" means that it can only be used if you have the option to fire a weapon, and if you do use it then you effectively count as "having fired a weapon".

[Gamu]

I would assume that "instead of firing a weapon" means that it can only be used if you have the option to fire a weapon, and if you do use it then you effectively count as "having fired a weapon".

Ok, it was too good to be true so I suppose you are right. But the Engineer has no shooting weapon to fire, so in that case the pigeons could not even be released, so it's again a bad wording from GW.

[LiddellHart]

Wording seems pretty clear and straightforward to me. IMHO only easter egg hunters that fail to find something here could be disappointed.

[T10]

Ok, it was too good to be true so I suppose you are right. But the Engineer has no shooting weapon to fire, so in that case the pigeons could not even be released, so it's again a bad wording from GW.

In a perfect world you might see GW define each model as having a shooting attack each turn, and allow for the model to use this shooting attack to fire a weapon or use an ability.

-T10

[Blinder]

Action-per-phase, with the current charge/movement/shooting rules bundled into actions that are handed out by the phase. No more need for "instead of shooting" and such, easy to build in exceptions by starting them out, "As an additional action." Would be nice if they'd do that for both systems (maybe all 3, don't know anything about LotR though).

[Wesser]

Think the thing to take away from here is that Pigeon bombs beats Mortars every day of the week...

[Morax]

Unless on that day of the week the unit targeted has been debuffed by a withering. T1 targets will take quite a few wounds from a S2 hit with a large blast template.

[Wesser]

Unless on that day of the week the unit targeted has been debuffed by a withering. T1 targets will take quite a few wounds from a S2 hit with a large blast template.

Assuming your mortar can hit that unit (not in combat), assuming you dont scatter or misfire, assuming you cast your spell and assuming your mortar isnt already dead. Oh and assuming you're taking a Shadow mage (every time?) who then rolls the spell?

Seems a tall order. Especially since you have 100 pts of pillow-firing machine if not all of these factors are in. And still it would be only marginally better than the pidgeon-bomb.


Rly Morax. The only reason that the Mortar aint "The Worst unit in Warhammer" is that they share a book with pistoliers

[Morax]

Really Wesser I'm right there with you. I've been right there with you since I suggested the pidgeon bomb list in the empire tactica forum. All I'm saying is that you can find a use for the mortar if you want to. A list that is built around it might look like -

Shadow Wizard Lord
Popemobile
Shadow Battle Wizard
BSB

50 man unit of Spears
50 man unit of Spears
Mortar
Mortar
Cannon
Cannon
Stank

This would give you 6 levels of magic, more than enough to get the spell you need with consistancy, two hordes to target with mind razor, enough fire power to thin things out on the way to you and A fair chance to channel an extra die or two in the magic phase.

[Wesser]

Well kudos for the high spirits I guess

Still it kind of makes me want to try out that Zombie Deathstar build.

If you have Vanhels, Hellish Vigour and ASF on them and the enemy fails their fear test, then a zombie horde would be a rly hard unit...yep...