The New Vampire Counts 8th Edition Tactica

[Mikael.K]

Our combat lords can make huge dents in TG units, just watch out for lore of life. Flesh to Stone can make it a difficult task. Lore of death perhaps? Purple sun should take out a good few TG. In all honesty, a slann TG unit is a honey trap that really should be avoided. Lots of magic defence to weather the worst magic, take out the rest of the army.

Anyone with more experience with BK buses? Maybe some do and donts and the like. Also, what is ideal support for it? Terrorgheist/vargheists? Double varghs? Doing the mortis engine/Crypt horror centre with a bus. Would that work? Spreading my strengths a bit too thin perhaps`?

[Askari]

You can't compete against as Slann in the magic phase, the best you can do is just keep the pressure up. That said, unless he wipes out your Ethereal units with magic, they can tie up Temple Guard for a while. Really though, that unit is worth a bucketload of points, so I'd do the unusual, for me, move of putting my blender Lord in with my Grave Guard. Even Flesh to Stone on Temple Guard doesn't help much when you have horded up S6 Killing Blow attacks - cast Hellish Vigour for extra funsies, the Lord himself can make a mockery of them also with 5 S6 (Ogre Blade) Red Fury attacks, and every loss will be felt, as they are expensive models. Soon enough, you'll get to hit the Slann and then it's all over for superfrog.

If you're really experimental, try using Count Mannfred for +6 to cast LoVampires spells, making it harder for the frog to counter, then switch up and LoDeath spell him.

[Mikael.K]

Having the lord in the GG unit makes them a number one target for dwellers. Not as bad with S4 (S5 on the lord), but still. In other words, make haste!

[Frankly]

.... but how can I compete in magic phase while retaining the combat punch much needed?

It depends what you mean by 'compete', do you mean compete in your own magic phase, because he's shuttiing your's down?

You can run a list those primary role is to buff your hammer units. Its just matter of picking the right tools, for example Mortis engines, BP, stone etc, etc. These can all strengthen your magic phase so you can push through spells. If you run a strong VC magic phase it can compete against anything.

It depends if you want to change to role of the lord into a Caster and push points into supporting that magic phase and get your combat punch from your unit selection and consistant buffing. Its pretty hard to dominate with a VC magic phase without it being well supported, especially against a Slann list imho.



In general you'd hope a blender lord/GG unit can easily take down a TG/slann unit one of one. The issue is how 'Death star' the opponent runs his TG unit, if it has one or two other tough characters in it, then its a real uphill battle for VC unless your getting two charges off on the TG unit. The other thing is if the oponent is dominating his magic phase and if he's using light or life. I'd prefer to fight life than light personally.

[Askari]

Having the lord in the GG unit makes them a number one target for dwellers. Not as bad with S4 (S5 on the lord), but still. In other words, make haste!

You're right, it's a gamble, but really you're going to want to tarpit that deathstar, which means several Ethereals as Temple Guard will kill Zombies faster than you raise them, or you're going to obliterate it, which means countering with your own deathstar. Focus on moving quick at him, using Vanhel's if you must, and he should only get one chance at Dwellers.

[SteelTitan]

Anyone with more experience with BK buses? Maybe some do and donts and the like. Also, what is ideal support for it? Terrorgheist/vargheists? Double varghs? Doing the mortis engine/Crypt horror centre with a bus. Would that work? Spreading my strengths a bit too thin perhaps`?

I wrote a little tactica...it should be somewhere in the first 5 pages of this thread.

[Algovil]

I belive a blender Lord in a unit of Black knights could work well, the armour work in your favor vs their attacks and the vampire should be able to do some damage. Just Charge the templeguard head on, attack Saurus with your core and try to tarpit them for as long as possible.

[snottlebocket]

Has anyone tried a mass ethereal army? I love the idea of a ghostly graveyard army. I don't mean ghouls and graveyard feeders but risen dead and lots of ghosts. Skeletons, zombies and as many ethereal troops as I can find a place for. Spirit hosts, wraiths and banshee's are some of my favorite undead and I really like the idea of loading up on them. Big hordes of risen skeletons and zombies surrounded by ghostly shapes drifting forward, shrieking at the enemy.

I just have no idea how to make it work. It seems extremely fragile. I considered maxing out on ethereal trio's (2 wraiths, 1 banshee) to make as many targets as possible, maybe shielding them with spirit hosts. As well as sticking lots of banshee heroes in the front ranks, ready to dart out when the enemy is close enough for the ghosts to slip between their units out of sight. But still, a few magic missiles and it's all over.

Does anyone have any ideas?

[Askari]

But still, a few magic missiles and it's all over.

That is the big issue with Ethereal lists, anyone with a half-decent amount of magic, or worse, Daemons, will just delete units with even lowly Fireballs. God forbid you face a Coven of Light list... That said number of targets is not the way to go, as even if you survive you can't hit hard enough with what's left (i.e. nothing) Cairn Wraiths function okay in larger units, and Banshees and Wraiths in Skeleton units perform admirably as it negates their weakness to magic missiles. Spirit Hosts, as 1-man units, are always excellent.

Kemmler, able to be Ethereal himself, is of course an excellent choice for the General in such a list. Else I'd go for counter-magic, using Dispel Scroll, the Staff of Sorcery etc to try and counter incoming magic missiles, Lore of Death should be a consideration to snipe enemy Wizards and magic weapon wielders. Although I don't think there's anything you can do to make it truly competitive, against an unwary opponent it can be game over once the list is drawn out the box.

[Wesser]

That is the big issue with Ethereal lists......... against an unwary opponent it can be game over once the list is drawn out the box.

Yep, so dont do it

[Mikael.K]

I wrote a little tactica...it should be somewhere in the first 5 pages of this thread.

Yeah, found it on page 3 . I have something similar. Its a comped list so may look a bit weird.

Lords
Vampire Lord, Heavy Armour, Shield, Barded Steed, Red Fury,
Quickblood, Talisman of Preservation,Ogre Blade, O
ther Trickster's Shard, Lore of Vampires,
433

Heroes
Vampire, Level 1, Battle Standard -
Bearer, Heavy Armour, Barded Steed, Fear Incarnate, Aura of Dark Majesty
Shield, Sword of Striking,
Dawnstone, Lore of Vampires,
237

Necromancer: Level 2, Lore of the Vampires, Master of the Dead 120

Necromancer: Level 2, Lore of the Vampires 100

Core:
20 Zombies, 60
14 Skeleton Warriors, Full Command, 100
35 Crypt Ghouls, Crypt Ghast, 360
5 Dire Wolves, 40
5 Dire Wolves, 40

Special:
7 Crypt Horrors: Crypt Haunter 276
10 Black Knights: Full Command, Barding, Lances, Screaming Banner 315
Spirit Host: 45
2 Fell Bats: 32

Rare:
Mortis Engine: Blasphemous Tome 240

Total: 2398pts

So, same idea but the Crypt horrors are a pretty tough nut to crack and the ghouls should do fine aswell. Should be no problem for the necros to keep all those units up and running.
Still, my main concern is that my bus lacks the proper support, but I´ll have to try it out. TG´s, VG´s and Varghs would all be ideal for this role. Would love to have the lord beeing a level 4, but we´ll see ow it goes .

[Nocculum]

Have to agree with Great Weapons on Grave Guard, simply because, unlike other elite infantry, you can raise yours, so the extra losses taken from the lack of shields can be countered.

What banner do people take, considering thrift?

[Askari]

Have to agree with Great Weapons on Grave Guard, simply because, unlike other elite infantry, you can raise yours, so the extra losses taken from the lack of shields can be countered.

What banner do people take, considering thrift?

There's other banners besides Banner of the Barrows? Who knew

[snottlebocket]

Have to agree with Great Weapons on Grave Guard, simply because, unlike other elite infantry, you can raise yours, so the extra losses taken from the lack of shields can be countered.

What banner do people take, considering thrift?

If the banner of the barrows is out of the question, I'd say the flaming banner. It'll stop people from having any ideas of regenerating your wightly onslaught.

[Vipoid]

A random question - do you think it's possible to make a decent VC army with no magic?

I know that you can't really have no magic at all (since your general has to be a wizard), but I was wondering if you could just have a Lv1 Vamp/Ghoul King, and just tool your army for CC (no points spent on necromancers or magic levels).

Does this sound at all viable?

[Wesser]

A random question - do you think it's possible to make a decent VC army with no magic?

I know that you can't really have no magic at all (since your general has to be a wizard), but I was wondering if you could just have a Lv1 Vamp/Ghoul King, and just tool your army for CC (no points spent on necromancers or magic levels).

Does this sound at all viable?

About as viable as Skaven going to war without using any weapon forged by warpstone

[Stonewyrm]

About as viable as Skaven going to war without using any weapon forged by warpstone

But what should you do if you know you are going up against an opponent with good magic defence like Dwarfs or a Slaan?
Invest (waste?) even more points in magic to push through or tone it down?
I play with a Blender Lord so adding 105pts to get him to Lv 4 makes sense. I've had great success with Lord, 2x Lv 2 and Mortis Engine but what if I actually wanted to take some troops for a change instead of dropping 1000 out of 2200 points just for the Lord and his magical backup.
People who run a Ghoulking on T-Gheist can't get more than a Lv 2. How do they do it?
Obviously speed will help to get into CC or kill the other side's mages but what else?

[Darnok]

But what should you do if you know you are going up against an opponent with good magic defence like Dwarfs or a Slaan?
Invest (waste?) even more points in magic to push through or tone it down?
I play with a Blender Lord so adding 105pts to get him to Lv 4 makes sense. I've had great success with Lord, 2x Lv 2 and Mortis Engine but what if I actually wanted to take some troops for a change instead of dropping 1000 out of 2200 points just for the Lord and his magical backup.
People who run a Ghoulking on T-Gheist can't get more than a Lv 2. How do they do it?
Obviously speed will help to get into CC or kill the other side's mages but what else?

But that's more down the line of "not that much magic" instead of "none at all" (apart from the general).

I think it would not work well at all. VC units are costed with their magic backup in mind, so skipping that is essentially wasting points - in the sense of paying points for stuff you then don't use.

[Askari]

I reckon it's doable, but I'd take a Level 1 Necromancer anyway. Let's face it as Vampires the most important spell... is Vanhels. But Invocation is great too And if you're going down the L1 blender Lord/Ghoul King route, you can use the Necromancer, who is cheap as chips anyway, to just 6-dice Invocation every turn. If he blows up, who cares, but at least you can try and get some spells off without risking the General, I mean the power dice will just go to waste otherwise. As ever I'd recommend the Book of Arkhan also, but no real need to increase the cost of the Necromancer.

I'd also probably go for a cavalry list, as with little magic you're not as capable of keeping numbers up with Invocation, so you need to pick your targets and engage quickly.

[Danny76]

Guys, I need some help with unit deployments and/or sizes.

How wide and deep do you deploy zombies/skeletons/ghouls/grave guard in both 2k and 2.5k games?

I was thinking 10 wide for ghouls and grave guard (about 30 strong for each?), but was a bit unsure on the others.
How is 7 wide for skeletons and such? Or should I just make everything horde width?

Thanks in advance
Danny