The New Vampire Counts 8th Edition Tactica

[Vipoid]

I agree with everything you said, except for the thing that Bats are more expensive. Now you can take them in units of 2, making them cheaper, and although they cannot vanguard like wolves, they are a bit easier to work with as they fly and can easily get into a desired position for redirecting. But your point stands.

With regard to them being more expensive - yes and no. Wolves are more expensive in absolute terms (40pts, compared to 32 for bats). However, wolves could be considered less expensive in that they take points from your Core 'pool', rather than from the rest of your army.

Now, we really don't have a great core (3/4 of it is basically units designed to die/suicide whilst holding up enemy units), so I doubt I'm the only one who tries to spend the absolute minimum on it. Lets say you're playing at 2000pts, giving you 500pts core and 1500pts for the rest of your army. If you use 2 bats, then you still have to have 500pts of core, so the 32pts comes out of the points for the rest of your army (leaving you 1468pts) - which could otherwise be spent on harder-hitting units. On the other hand, if you use wolves, then you can simply remove other core choices, to ensure that the total doesn't exceed 500, and so leaving you with 1500pts to spend on the rest of your army.

[Ville]

Oh boy those Dwarves are tough!

Just played my first game against them and I got my behind handed back to me. I only managed to snatch a draw due to stupid luck.

That Anvil is just plain nasty: it zapped away my Cairn Wraiths before making his Miners charge the rear of my bunker (I didn't realize they could come out from my table edge). Their infantry is very solid and resistant to fear effects. My opponent was still inexperienced with his army, so I predict I will be in for even rougher battles in the future.

Any tips against the stunties?

[hazmiter]

Try bogging him down or pinning his units in place.
Dwarves are very anti magic, plus have a good toughness.
Combat lord w lore of shadow could do it (yes, a vampire lord w forbidden knowledge bumping a necromancer to general is allowed).
Dwarves suffer low initiative too, so monsters such as the crypt horrors and other regen nasties are useful, and mortis engines are a must unless he has a bad as cannon line.... Worth the risk though, regen all over.

[Vipoid]

Oh boy those Dwarves are tough!

Just played my first game against them and I got my behind handed back to me. I only managed to snatch a draw due to stupid luck.

That Anvil is just plain nasty: it zapped away my Cairn Wraiths before making his Miners charge the rear of my bunker (I didn't realize they could come out from my table edge). Their infantry is very solid and resistant to fear effects. My opponent was still inexperienced with his army, so I predict I will be in for even rougher battles in the future.

Any tips against the stunties?

Well, unless you have a Lv4 Wizard with Black Pendant or you're prepared to throw 6 dice at a spell in the hopes of IF, don't rely on getting your spells off.

What sort of army is he playing - is it a gunline with lots of war machines, or is it more aggressive?

I've beaten a gunline dwarf army a couple of times, but both were in 2v2s (the first was VC and WoC vs Daemons and Dwarves, the second was VC and Daemons vs Dwarves and Skaven).

In the first game, we won mainly because our teamwork was much better. The damon player and the dwarf player both did exactly the same as they did in 1v1s (advance everything forward and huddle at the back of the field, respectively), with no real cooperation. Basically, we just swamped the daemon player's units - with me taking the charges and the WoC player then flanking them. After turn 2, the daemon player was reduced to just a bloodthirster, whilst myself and the WoC player had sustained relatively minor casualties. The dwarf player conceeded once our armies hit his lines.

In our second game, the dwarf player was rather unlucky - virtually all his war machines either missed or misfired.


Anyway, if it's a gunline army, my best advice is that you advance towards him and try to whether his fire as best you can. Things like Vargwulfs, bats, dire wolves etc. should be sent ahead to engage the most dangerous war machines. If he's relatively clustered, then it might pay to set up charges on less valuble units/war-machines, if it allows you to overrun into other ones.

Can't think of anything else at the moment.

[Ville]

Thank you for your replies, gentlemen. I especially like the Mortis Engine idea: +2 to cast would help immensely in the magic phase, as I don't like going for the IF with VC. Flaming cannonballs are nasty, but if I present him with several targets, it could work well.

What sort of army is he playing - is it a gunline with lots of war machines, or is it more aggressive?

He is just building up his army, we played a fairly small 1600 point fight. As far as I know, he is going for a balanced force that can do decent in every phase, so thankfully I probably won't be facing a gunline. The nastiest thing in his army were the Miners, combined with the Anvil that lets them charge in the shooting phase. Kinda like the good old days, when we could still charge with Vanhel's.

[Vipoid]

Thank you for your replies, gentlemen. I especially like the Mortis Engine idea: +2 to cast would help immensely in the magic phase, as I don't like going for the IF with VC. Flaming cannonballs are nasty, but if I present him with several targets, it could work well.

A couple of things:

With regard to the Mortis Engine, I'd be very wary of using it with your general. +2 to cast is certainly nice, but forcing you to roll twice on the miscast table and letting your opponent decide which result you use is somethign you really want to avoid.

With regard to muliple targets - try to use things like Vargwulfs - fast units that still have a measure of protection against cannons (regenerate in this case)

He is just building up his army, we played a fairly small 1600 point fight. As far as I know, he is going for a balanced force that can do decent in every phase, so thankfully I probably won't be facing a gunline. The nastiest thing in his army were the Miners, combined with the Anvil that lets them charge in the shooting phase. Kinda like the good old days, when we could still charge with Vanhel's.

Hmm, I'm afraid I don't have much experience with miners or the anvil. Hopefully someone else will be able to give you advice on that front.

[Askari]

Combat lord w lore of shadow could do it (yes, a vampire lord w forbidden knowledge bumping a necromancer to general is allowed).

No, it's not.

I've found Dwarves a relatively easy opponent to be honest. They're very unlikely to outmaneuver me (Anvil/Miners excepted) and they have no magic of their own for me to worry about. Their troops are reasonably expensive and still can't stand up to Grave Guard hordes. There's very little they have to deal with my Vampire Lord short of a lucky Cannon shot and me failing Look Out Sir, or just tarpitting him with a resilient Dwarf Lord. Even with their extra Power Dice, you can have a Level 4 caster, and possible Mortis Engine bonus, to their +2 to dispel, add in that you'll still usually have more power dice than their dispel dice means you can still get a few key spells off.

[NitrosOkay]

The only way a Vampire Lord can ever not have the Lore of the Vampires is if you are running two Vampire Lords.

[Balerion]

Try to use the Black Periapt against Dwarfs whenever you can, since they're the one army against whom it has no opportunity cost.

[Ville]

Try to use the Black Periapt against Dwarfs whenever you can, since they're the one army against whom it has no opportunity cost.

Yeah, I thought about that too, but in the end it felt a bit too obvious. It is basically two guaranteed extra power dice each turn. So, I just went for a Power Stone for my Master Necro and kept a clean conscience.

[NitrosOkay]

Yeah, I thought about that too, but in the end it felt a bit too obvious. It is basically two guaranteed extra power dice each turn. So, I just went for a Power Stone for my Master Necro and kept a clean conscience.

It's still more expensive than Master of the Black Arts in the old book which guaranteed 2 power dice

[Balerion]

Yeah, I thought about that too, but in the end it felt a bit too obvious. It is basically two guaranteed extra power dice each turn. So, I just went for a Power Stone for my Master Necro and kept a clean conscience.

Psshhhh, all's fair in love and war(gaming). Particularly if he's using the Master Rune of Balance (which basically balances out the Periapt in exact proportion).

[SteelTitan]

Question: I don't have any experience with Wight Kings and I want to use one in an upcoming tournament. He has to be mounted and he will go in a unit of 8 Black Knights. I will probably have 122 points to spend on him.

What would you recommend?

[NitrosOkay]

Question: I don't have any experience with Wight Kings and I want to use one in an upcoming tournament. He has to be mounted and he will go in a unit of 8 Black Knights. I will probably have 122 points to spend on him.

What would you recommend?

Barded Skeletal Steed, Enchanted Shield and Sword of Striking is 125. 1+ armour save and hits more often for more killing blows.

[Athlan na Dyr]

Question: I don't have any experience with Wight Kings and I want to use one in an upcoming tournament. He has to be mounted and he will go in a unit of 8 Black Knights. I will probably have 122 points to spend on him.

What would you recommend?

What do you want him for? Character killing seems a bit redundant when in a unit of wights...
If its just to bump up number of attacks/ continual attack power, A wight king with a barded skeletal stead, Dragonhelm and Great Weapon is 120 points.

but seriously, what is his intended purpose? Kinda need a bit more information.

[SteelTitan]

Well, yeah, he's just there to give the unit some extra punch.

A page back I explained how Im going to this tournament with a bunch of restrictions. Max 3 characters, 150 points per character. It's 1250 points per army (it's a two player team tourny). Because of the points I spent on 2 Necros, I have 122 points to spend on the Wight King. [1250 x 25% - Level 2 Necro with dispel scroll - naked level 1].

I like Nitros' setup because I always seem to have problems with hitting but unfortunately it's over in points. Great weapon sounds good too (wouldn't be WYSIWYG) but then I'm only left with a 3+ save in CC. Add in a luckstone and that's rerollable. I guess that will just have to do.

Wight King, Barded horse, great weapon, luckstone; 114 points.


In that case I actually have 21 points to spend somewhere else. Hmmm. I could add either a champion and a standard bearer to the Black Knights' unit...or maybe only the Standard Bearer and the Banner of Eternal Flame (like this idea). Thoughts?

[Kayosiv]

Just add 5 more knights instead of the wight king, which is his problem really. The wight king is good, and solid at 85 points, but once he's equipped he's well over 100 points, and 10 grave guard or 5 black knights are usually proportionally better than him in that regard. Since your unit of knights is so small at 8, I would definitly say MORE KNIGHTS instead of the hero. You can run the unit 6 wide and get just as many attacks at the same strength (1 less weaponskill though) as the wight king, plus more bodies to absorb damage. I would also definitely give your knights a standard. They are a defensive unit but because of their average weapon skill they have a good chance to wiff their attacks every once and a while, and good armor and toughness does nothing to help you vs. crumble. The more static combat resolution you can get in the unit the better. I run mine with the warbanner for this exact reason.

[SteelTitan]

Yeah, that was my first choice. However, units cannot be over 250 points which it will be if I add more knights. Thanks though!

[hazmiter]

Maybe invest those points into a second unit of black knights?

[Soundwave]

I tried out a couple of newish things in my last vc battle.I themed an army based on a ghoulish monster army similar to tactics for say a dark elf zoo army.The whole army did not contain a single banner.Core was ghouls and wolves special was crypt horrors and varghiest,rare terrorghiest and varghulf lord on zombie dragon e.t.c this was ok fast for undead nice and hard hitting i must say i could of coordinated my attacks better i still lost although there maybe something in this?Anyone had any success with such a list?I also tried out a couple of hero level flying vampires as "winged assassins" to seek out enemy wizards inside units to free up my casting.This fell short as well due to one of the vamps coming short of a charge.I found this useful though as vc lack scouts and shooting,a winged budget vamp could easily fly from a unit to silence war machines.Any cheap combo ideas for such a winged vampire or do you think it may be a waste?