The New Vampire Counts 8th Edition Tactica

[Jagosaja]

Ok, I've used a Coven Throne in couple of games now, and I must say I am stunned how well it performs. Here is the build:

Vampire (hero)
Coven Throne
Aura of Dark Majesty
Talisman of Preservation
Heavy Armour
Shield

Now, that is a lot of points in one model that cannot join units, but it is very resilient. I have not lost it in a battle so far, though the Vampire himself dies in almost every game. Both the rider and the mount have Ward Save 4+, and the rider has Armour Save 3+, which is nice. Pallid Handmaidens score an odd wound or two, so does the Vampire himself if he lives that long, and ghosts beneath rarely do anything. It has good impact hits, and as already mentioned has better combat potential than most chariots. The bound spell it can cast is also ok, sometimes can work wonders but it sucks that it lasts only in the turn it has been cast.

But above all there are two things that really make it shine. First of all, it has ethereal movement, making it suffer no dangerous terrain tests, so it is able to position itself as it likes, which brings us to the other big quality. Battle of Wills. On paper it does not do much, or so I have thought. Lowering BS is nice, but lowering WS by 1 is crap. Trust me, it is not. In almost every game I have tried to combo charge it with a Varghulf (but I guess it works great with many other things too, say Fear Incarnate or Screaming Banner) and at one point opponents fail their fear test. With a Ld 10 Lord nearby and hopefully a living Vampire with Aura of Dark Majesty, enemies often fail their Battle of Wills by 1 or 2. This means that their WS is 0, so they cannot hit me, and I automatically hit them, and it not only goes for Coven Throne but any other unit in close combat with that enemy unit. It is devastating. Units that are immune to psychology or cause fear or terror, in my experience, have lower Ld, so although they will not fail fear tests, they are more likely to suffer harder from Battle of Wills.

I play against High Elves most often, and it is a single unit they hate most and try to destroy from the start of the game. Just for kicks, I switched the armies with my friend. I had a horde of 30 White Lions, so I thought I didn't need to keep them in range of the Prince as they can shine even on their own. Coven Throne Vampire charged me with his lord nearby. With a Ld7 I failed my fear test, so it went to Battle of Wills. He had Ld 10, I had 7. I rolled 5, he rolled 3. I had WS 0 now, he scored 7-8 wounds, I failed my break test on Ld7 and he ran me over, without a scratch. Name one other thing in Warhammer that can fare that well against Horde of White Lions.

Just wanted to share how thrilled I am with Coven Throne.

[Kayosiv]

I was under the impression that weapon-skill 0 opponents could hit on 6's and were hit on 2's, because 1's always miss and 6's always hit.

I have used the Coven Throne in only 1 game and it garnered similar results. Vampire on top died fairly early on, but the chariot itself proved very resilient and earned it's points back and then some.

[logan054]

I have a summer tournament coming up, 1.5k. What would you guys field? A master necro would be nice, but I have a hard time letting my blender lord go :P.

Honestly I think VC lords are to many points for anything below 2k, at 1.5k I just take baby manfred and a cheap vampire

[Jagosaja]

I was under the impression that weapon-skill 0 opponents could hit on 6's and were hit on 2's, because 1's always miss and 6's always hit.

Page 4 of the rulebook, Characteristics of zero, second paragraph: If any creature or object has a Weapon skill of 0 than it is unable to defend itself in close combat, and any blows struck against it will therefore automatically hit. So, they get autohit. However, the first paragraph claims this: Some creatures have been given a value of '0' for certain characteristics, which means they have no ability whatsoever in that skill. So, they cannot hit. At least that is how I see it, and I would be glad to be proven otherwise.

[Flying_Flaming_Moose]

I had my first game against ogres this weekend - and I lost, in a deeply annoying and depressingly frequent manner: I lost my vampire lord to combat res.

He was playing a gutstar army - with 2 units of leadbelchers, 2 cannons and a massive unit of mournfang. The game is going very well for me, the banshee's and the terrorgheist deal with the mournfang, the crypt horrors and banshee deal with the cannons and the leadbelchers and I manage to chump the gut star with raised units of zombies.

Turn 5, and a unit of ghouls is engaged with the gutstar after a poor placement of zombies for the redirection of the charge due to limited space (a mistake) - the gut star is surronded by my black knight bus and terrorgheist - I decide to charge with everything, figuring that my vampire lord will have enough attacks to deal significant damage to the gut star.

I was wrong - indeed, the guy just attacked the ghouls and killed enough that even though I killed a fair number of orgres he had enough combat res to destroy my black knight bus - Poof! A massive chunk of my army vanishes.

This is the second time that a core choice unit has led to the death of my vampire lord due to combat res - leading me to the conclusion that combined charges with vampire core choices are just suicidal for our elite choices. It just didn't matter that my black knights had all the defensive gear and I had tooled my vampire to oblivion - the ghouls basically meant that my vampire was doomed.

Is this a general trend that people notice with vampires? Or is it just an annoying habit of gut stars in general. What would people recommend for dealing with such a unit? Apart from it, the ogre army seemed a decent matchup.

[BUB]

I had my first game against ogres this weekend - and I lost, in a deeply annoying and depressingly frequent manner: I lost my vampire lord to combat res.

He was playing a gutstar army - with 2 units of leadbelchers, 2 cannons and a massive unit of mournfang. The game is going very well for me, the banshee's and the terrorgheist deal with the mournfang, the crypt horrors and banshee deal with the cannons and the leadbelchers and I manage to chump the gut star with raised units of zombies.

Turn 5, and a unit of ghouls is engaged with the gutstar after a poor placement of zombies for the redirection of the charge due to limited space (a mistake) - the gut star is surronded by my black knight bus and terrorgheist - I decide to charge with everything, figuring that my vampire lord will have enough attacks to deal significant damage to the gut star.

I was wrong - indeed, the guy just attacked the ghouls and killed enough that even though I killed a fair number of orgres he had enough combat res to destroy my black knight bus - Poof! A massive chunk of my army vanishes.

This is the second time that a core choice unit has led to the death of my vampire lord due to combat res - leading me to the conclusion that combined charges with vampire core choices are just suicidal for our elite choices. It just didn't matter that my black knights had all the defensive gear and I had tooled my vampire to oblivion - the ghouls basically meant that my vampire was doomed.

Is this a general trend that people notice with vampires? Or is it just an annoying habit of gut stars in general. What would people recommend for dealing with such a unit? Apart from it, the ogre army seemed a decent matchup.

You're right about the core bleeding combat res, by the sounds of it you already had the game won I would have just stayed away from the gutstar and let them eat your Ghouls. Gutstars can be a pain but a tooled up Knight bus going in with a few blender Vamps should be able to do enough damage to offset what they do back but it's probably still a bit dicey.

Quick question for everyone thinking of doing a Strigoi list at some point in time, do I go one tooled up Ghoul King or two slightly barebones Ghoul King's?

[Vipoid]

Is this a general trend that people notice with vampires? Or is it just an annoying habit of gut stars in general. What would people recommend for dealing with such a unit? Apart from it, the ogre army seemed a decent matchup.

I've lost my Lord quite a few times to combat resolution.

It's one of those annoying deaths, because there's often very little you can do to stop it (I run my Lord in a GG horde, and he's still been killed by combat resolution more than once). I always thought that Vampiric units (or at least the general) would take fewer wounds from a lost combat, or have the number of wounds they're allowed to take capped or something. I guess that would probably make them OP though.

I imagine all you can really do is try to avoid multi-charging with an elite unit and a tarpit unit. Still annoying when it happens though.

[Senbei]

Well... It's still a great improvement from when they used to run away. Nothing like having your general peg it off the table on turn 2 (from a combat res) without even having suffered a wound.

[SteelTitan]

You're right about the core bleeding combat res, by the sounds of it you already had the game won I would have just stayed away from the gutstar and let them eat your Ghouls. Gutstars can be a pain but a tooled up Knight bus going in with a few blender Vamps should be able to do enough damage to offset what they do back but it's probably still a bit dicey.

Quick question for everyone thinking of doing a Strigoi list at some point in time, do I go one tooled up Ghoul King or two slightly barebones Ghoul King's?

Interesting. I was just about to ask about people's experience against Ogres/Bullstar/Gutstars. I'm trying to plan a game against Ogres and I really want to just charge in my cavbus but I don't have a lot of experience against Ogres and don't want to throw away the game just like that. I don't have blender Vampires in there, just the lord and a terror-bomb and I wonder if that will cut it.

@ Duo-charging: Yeah, clearly that's not something you want to do. By doing that you totally negate the biggest strength of the bus; survivability. The combination of the Lord's attacks and the Wights 2+ armour save is what makes it an awesome unit. Ghouls melt away against Ogres (although the poison is very nice but without Vanhels even that won't matter), so yeah, bad idea. I wouldn't even try to pull that trick with Grave Guard.

[Freeman]

I've got a 2000 points tournament in two weeks. My list consists in a blender lord, 40 ghouls, 40 grave guard, 2 units of spirit hosts and a terrorgheist. I have 116 points left and I don't know how to spend them.

I was thinking in a lvl 1 necromancer with the book or arkham and the fireball ring, but maybe my two hordes will get outmaneuvered easily without more support units. What do you think?

[Mikael.K]

Honestly I think VC lords are to many points for anything below 2k, at 1.5k I just take baby manfred and a cheap vampire

Wouldnt a master necro be more effective? Also, vampires never end up cheap I´ve found . For 375pts you can do pretty good blender lord and it can have a massive impact on such a small game. But its not the same "auto include" as in bigger point games.

I've got a 2000 points tournament in two weeks. My list consists in a blender lord, 40 ghouls, 40 grave guard, 2 units of spirit hosts and a terrorgheist. I have 116 points left and I don't know how to spend them.

I was thinking in a lvl 1 necromancer with the book or arkham and the fireball ring, but maybe my two hordes will get outmaneuvered easily without more support units. What do you think?

For starters, you need 500pts worth of core and 40 ghouls with a ghast is 410. I´d suggest 2 units of 5 dire wolves + one more ghoul to reach that limit. This will give you a good number of chaff units/deployment drops, allowing you to put your big units where they need to be. 1 support necromancer sounds like a good idea for additional IoN and in case your lord happens to die (you´ve probably lost the game if he does, but still ).

Vs ogres: I´ve played against them quite a lot. Not so much the uber gutstar due to the comp system we use. Apart from that, there is no unit in the ogre army that can take a beating from our cavbus (I have a blender lord + vamp BSB in my bus) and live to tell the tale. Still, their shooting is potentially lethal. Maneaters with flaming poison shooting with sniper along with lots of leadbelchers and ironblaster makes for a really hideous shooting phase. Make sure to engage as soon as possible.

They too have cheap chaff in the form of sabertusks and small units of gnoblars. They can have nasty magic phase aswell and a slaughtermaster with lore of heavens is pretty sweet. Those comets and damage spells in there can easily make life hard for our cavbus. Strong shooting/magic lists is what I see a lot in my meta.

[Jagosaja]

Quick question for everyone thinking of doing a Strigoi list at some point in time, do I go one tooled up Ghoul King or two slightly barebones Ghoul King's?

Go for a single tooled up Strigoi. With Red Fury and Sword of Bloodshed he outperforms two bare Ghoul Kings. Plus, you can fit in a decent Master Necromancer, although it might not fit your Strigoi themed list.

As for the Ogres, I have found that VC armies demand a lot more tactical skills than they used to before (apart from all horde lists, which I find dull). Each unit has to pick it's fights very carefully, you cannot just gangbang with everything. My general also used to die very often due to combat resolution until I decided to mostly keep him out of combat. Try to multiple charge with more serious hard hitters - I find dual charge from two Varghulves or a Varghulf and a Coven Throne priceless and extremely fun.

[Vipoid]

Quick question for everyone thinking of doing a Strigoi list at some point in time, do I go one tooled up Ghoul King or two slightly barebones Ghoul King's?

Well, it depends a lot on your definition of 'tooled-up'.

Generally, SGKs are taken to provide a cheaper Lord choice than a Vampire Lord. However, if you tool them up too much, it's probably better to just go with a Vampire Lord instead.

That being said, I'd certainly use 1 tooled-up one, rather than two. With VCs, your general is incredibly valuable, so I'd rather spend more points on 1 strong general, then have a weaker one just so I can have a second lord.

However, it might well be worth considering a SGK and a Master Necromancer. 2 Ghoul kings don't really add that much (they're killy in combat, but add very little else). On the other hand, a Necromancer can add strong magical support, whilst the SGK remains on the front-line.

[Freeman]

For starters, you need 500pts worth of core and 40 ghouls with a ghast is 410. I´d suggest 2 units of 5 dire wolves + one more ghoul to reach that limit. This will give you a good number of chaff units/deployment drops, allowing you to put your big units where they need to be. 1 support necromancer sounds like a good idea for additional IoN and in case your lord happens to die (you´ve probably lost the game if he does, but still ).

I forgot to mention one unit of 30 zombies (pirate zombies) with standard brarer and musician. I need that standard for blood and glory, but I'll try to squeeze some points for wolves.

Thanks for the help

[steevn]

hi

i'm having some troubles with certain things in this thread, can someone explain me these builds ?

blender vampire

black knight bus

thanks !

[Vipoid]

hi

i'm having some troubles with certain things in this thread, can someone explain me these builds ?

blender vampire

black knight bus

thanks !

A Blender vampire is a Vampire Lord with Quickblood, Red Fury, and usually a weapon that gives extra strength and/or attacks (e.g. Ogre Blade, Sword of Strife). He can have other equipment (and should defiantly have some protection), but it's those powers and weapons that really define him as a Blender Lord.

Essentially, he's hitting most things on 3s with rerolls, and then wounding most infantry on 2s (and has either 5 S7 attacks, or 7 S5 attacks). Then, for every successful wound, he gets to make an additional attack, thanks to red fury (which also benefit from the rerolls to hit). Basically, he can do a lot of damage to most units - and to infantry in particular.


I think a Knight bus is a unit of knights that's been arranged to gain more ranks, rather than more frontage. But, I don't use knights, so someone else can probably give you a better definition and explain the benefits.

[SteelTitan]

No, that's not really what a Knight bus is AFAIK. A knight bus is just the general / commonly used name for a sizeable unit of knights. With this setup, one usually goes for a deathstar-like build where multiple characters are put into this unit as well. Obviously this unit is usually quite expensive but is fast (because they are cav), tough (good armour save) and pack a real punch (characters + all knights with potential charge bonus etc etc).

[steevn]

No, that's not really what a Knight bus is AFAIK. A knight bus is just the general / commonly used name for a sizeable unit of knights. With this setup, one usually goes for a deathstar-like build where multiple characters are put into this unit as well. Obviously this unit is usually quite expensive but is fast (because they are cav), tough (good armour save) and pack a real punch (characters + all knights with potential charge bonus etc etc).

so 10 knights with 2 vampire lord and a bsb? or more ?

[Askari]

so 10 knights with 2 vampire lord and a bsb? or more ?

Less is fine. I'm running 11 BK with Screaming Banner with blender Lord and Fearbomb Lore of Shadow Vamp (it's really, really good making someone almost auto-fail a Fear test). I'll write up how well it's going after a few more games this weekend.

[Doommasters]

Blender Lords are just incredible one of the most fun characters I have ever played in WHFB..there is almost nothing you need to worry about apart from getting multi charged. I have been playing a couple of mates and they sometimes throw in the potion of strength just incase they get into a tricky spot. Lore of beasts is also really effective with Vampires as a secondary lore, so many spells that can boost your killyness to even sicker levels.

If I had a bigger VC army I would love to hit a OK death star head on with a SGK and Konrad in the same unit with the spell that gives +3A +3S....... the tears would be pure golden. Anyone have the time on running the killing power of such a unit with that spell?