The New Vampire Counts 8th Edition Tactica

[winslm]

1. Crypt horrors or vargeist?
2. Mortis engine with/out tome?
3. Why ever take a ghoul king. 5+ regen? Yeesh
4. Why take a wight king over a vamp hero?

1. I go with 1 single unit of Crypt horrors. I do not like the cost of vargs. My army is also all on foot and the vargs outrun things and get too far away from other support units.
2. I do not bother with the mortis engine. I would rather just start with larger units.
3. I have never used a ghoul king.
4. Sometimes in my killer grave guard/vamp lord unit I have a wight king with the obsidian lodestone. This gives the unit and my general a ward save against magic. My vampire lord is geared to be all attack with no ward saves. The wight king also benefits from the banner of the burrows.

[Frankly]

1. Crypt horrors or vargeist?
2. Mortis engine with/out tome?
3. Why ever take a ghoul king. 5+ regen? Yeesh
4. Why take a wight king over a vamp hero?

1 apples and oranges. Its Horrors vs GG
2 depends on magic, but really 99.9999% of the time tome it
3 yes .... squishy .., you need a good reason to take him i.e flight, fluff, engine, etc etc.
4 cost/flavour/toughness/Botbarrows/nice model

[sepulchre]

3 yes .... squishy .., you need a good reason to take him i.e flight, fluff, engine, etc etc.
l

Yeah, but it lets you fit in a master necro and a fighty lord in the same list. Just with because he only has a 5+ regen doesn't mean you can't get a better save.

[Vipoid]

Yeah, but it lets you fit in a master necro and a fighty lord in the same list. Just with because he only has a 5+ regen doesn't mean you can't get a better save.

Um... actually it kinda does.

Aside from Dragonbane gem (which isn't reliable), the only way to give the Ghoul king a better save is via Talisman of Protection. That would give him a 4+ ward, at the cost of 45pts. However, one of the main reasons for taking a Ghoul King is that you don't have to buy protective items. In the above case, the ghoul king would be 305pts (before any other items are added). On the other hand, a Vampire Lord with Armour of Destiny and a Shield (for a 4+/4++ save) would be 273 points. In fact, you could even give said vampire lord Quickblood (to compensate for the Ghoul King's higher initiative and rerolls), and it would *still* be cheaper than the Ghoul King.

So, you can give the ghoul king a better save, but doing so is both inefficient (since you're paying for a regeneration save that you'll never use), and detracts from the main point of buying a ghoul king in the first place (saving on points).

[Balerion]

Um... actually it kinda does.

Aside from Dragonbane gem (which isn't reliable), the only way to give the Ghoul king a better save is via Talisman of Protection. That would give him a 4+ ward, at the cost of 45pts. However, one of the main reasons for taking a Ghoul King is that you don't have to buy protective items. In the above case, the ghoul king would be 305pts (before any other items are added). On the other hand, a Vampire Lord with Armour of Destiny and a Shield (for a 4+/4++ save) would be 273 points. In fact, you could even give said vampire lord Quickblood (to compensate for the Ghoul King's higher initiative and rerolls), and it would *still* be cheaper than the Ghoul King.

So, you can give the ghoul king a better save, but doing so is both inefficient (since you're paying for a regeneration save that you'll never use), and detracts from the main point of buying a ghoul king in the first place (saving on points).

Actually, the most common way to get him a better save is to use a Mortis Engine (which is already a solid choice before you factor in what it can do for your lord). Between the Engine and the Gem you'll be 4+ or 2+ most of the time.

[Athlan na Dyr]

1. Crypt horrors or vargeist?
2. Mortis engine with/out tome?
3. Why ever take a ghoul king. 5+ regen? Yeesh
4. Why take a wight king over a vamp hero?

1. Whichever floats your boat. Very different battlefield roles so the two can't really be compared without having some context. If you have plenty of mainline units but need a fast moving and hard hitting unit, then go vargs. Else, Crypt Horrors are far tougher and still reasonably hitty.
2. Without tome makes it feel way too many points for a 6+ regen bubble. When its supporting a relatively cheap master necro (NEVER with a LVL 4 vamp lord) and the cheer squad (a couple of low level necromancers) with the tome its sex on a spirit horde. 2 dicing bubble vanhels? count me in! Just keep the number of Power Dice down to avoid the miscasts.
3. I wouldn't. If I want a combat monster and a high level spellcaster, I'll take a Vamp lord and give him some levels.
4. Killing blow affects all combat attacks right? So a Wight King with the sword of anti-heroes is an effective character deterent and therefore useful for protecting ethereal characters or assassinating any unbunkered BSB's. The corpse cart's ASF bubble is particularly useful in making him attack before the hero or their unit can defend them. Its not the most efficient use of points, but there are ways to use the Wight King and his awesome model without hamstringing yourself.

[hazmiter]

Athlan, the gold sigil sword for I10, plus corpse cart bubble XD

[Athlan na Dyr]

I prefer the additional attacks and strength if I don't land a KB, but yes that works as well. Good thinking (wish I'd thought of it now...)

[hazmiter]

Sound wave has it partly, he was using the asf sword, but I10 is so much better when you think about it.
Especially with corpse carts about.
Maybe even dueling blades XD

[Vipoid]

Does the Wight King need a magic weapon, do you think?

I ask because I usually just stick a Great Weapon on him and call it a day.

[Athlan na Dyr]

Depends what you want him for and how many points you have to do it with.
I prefer the magic weapon so he can take a cheap shield, plus the Sword of Anti-heroes makes for a nice counter to character based deathstars (bret lance with 3x paladins, Ogre Ironguts with a front rank of characters, 5x wraiths and a zombie or skeleton unit, Empire units with priest + captain and so on) and helps out against any other units hiding a character for ethereal defense.
The Great Weapon is nice and cheap, but rather limiting with the ASL, two handedness and low number of attacks. The last one is exacerbated with the relatively low WS of the Wight King.

[hazmiter]

I would go dueling blades, and banner barrows.
Hits on 2+, yes please.

[Vaiuri]

I would go dueling blades, and banner barrows.
Hits on 2+, yes please.

Agreed. This gives you +1A as well, more opportunity for those KBs.

1. Crypt horrors or vargeist? As has already been said, these are very different units with very different roles. I'm gonna answer though and say - whatever you think looks cool, then learn how to use them ^^
2. Mortis engine with/out tome? With, otherwise its an expensive regen bubble.
3. Why ever take a ghoul king. 5+ regen? Yeesh Its another way of getting a TG in the list? I like this guy and think he's under-rated, although mounting your lord on a monster is asking for a cannon in the head, he does eat faces, and give him Scabscrath too and whatever he hits with a double scream is just going to cry. Take a Necro Lord as your general in addition if you're worried about crumble - corrected, cant do this cos he's lower Ld, thanks Askari!
4. Why take a wight king over a vamp hero? Not over, but as well as. His merits have already been discussed by the esteemed gents above me, but I'd never take him as my only fighty-type hero.

[Askari]

I'd still rather have the 9 or so Grave Guard (that also have that Killing Blow you love) for the same cost. A9 T4 W9 > A3/4 T5 W3. Always.

Take a Necro Lord as your general in addition if you're worried about crumble.

Can't do that, the SGK has a higher Leadership value so he has to be the General. There really isn't a reason to take a SGK except for fluff value, you get better bang for your buck from a Vampire Lord who can also do wizarding duties far better, and taking a 260pt Lord choice in order to unlock a 3rd Terrorgheist is just beyond wasteful.

Didn't get to use the Black Knight bus last week, as something came up for my opponent, next week will instead be it's trial by fire.

[vinny t]

Has anybody tried out a mostly ethereal list? I've posted one over in Army lists that I think exemplifies that idea pretty well. Even though there are definite weaknesses, I feel as though there is a lot of potential playing an army that is basically immune to 80% of attacks.

Thoughts?

[goreshade]

Has anybody tried out a mostly ethereal list? I've posted one over in Army lists that I think exemplifies that idea pretty well. Even though there are definite weaknesses, I feel as though there is a lot of potential playing an army that is basically immune to 80% of attacks.

Thoughts?

It's a waste of time,
Askari will tell you why.

[Askari]

Indeed!

Hate to steal Malorian's quote, but it fits and was pretty much what I was about to say before he said it;

When you play against someone who can't handle it you crush them and it's a waste of time.

When you play against someone who can handle it you fall apart and it's a waste of time.

Lose lose...

[Vipoid]

Indeed!

Hate to steal Malorian's quote, but it fits and was pretty much what I was about to say before he said it;

Yep, that seems to sum it up quite well.

I've tried some Ethereal units, but they're far too dependant on which army I'm facing for my tastes. For example, a few Cairn Wraiths can be a useful way to soak up a lot of non-magical attacks against a squad. On the other hand, if I'm facing my friend's daemons, then they're a complete waste of 180pts. If they actually had decent defences outside of Ethereal, or if they had decent initiative, then I might consider them. As it stands though, ASL T3 and no save just makes them way to fragile against anything with magical attacks.



Anyone got advice for facing Brentonnians with VCs?

[Frankly]

Yeah, but it lets you fit in a master necro and a fighty lord in the same list. Just with because he only has a 5+ regen doesn't mean you can't get a better save.

True. Thats fine and if the combo works for you, then go crazy. I think that combo has been brought up before. I haven't tried it out. I can only really comment on what I've tried out on the table top when it comes to the ghoul king.

I would go dueling blades, and banner barrows.
Hits on 2+, yes please.

Thats a pretty cool set up, but ...

I'd still rather have the 9 or so Grave Guard (that also have that Killing Blow you love) for the same cost. A9 T4 W9 > A3/4 T5 W3. Always.

... sadly in general I stick to this.

For me atleast, if I take a Wight king its means I'll usually lose models out of my GG unit, since my M.Necro list is so tight on points. Which is a shame, because I love Wights for fluff reasons.

Anyone got advice for facing Brentonnians with VCs?

Control. Use your vanguard wolves to stagger his advance. you can do things like conga line reform down the flank of a cavbus to take away is wheel options. If he prays and I get first turn then its a massive advantage in my armies ability to set up my chaff to control his units. One of the Brit armybook's biggest boons is its ability to create really good support charges lists. If you can disrupt this, it'll make the game go easier for you.

If you have big enough units you can usually IoN away his ranged attack damage.

Its rare I see a big magic phase coming out of a Brit list.

[Askari]

Anyone got advice for facing Bretonnians with VCs?

Ethereal units

Had to be done. Terrorgheists also work well, due to killing expensive high armour models is what it's purpose is. Grave Guard as ever will carve up things and Brets rely on the charge moreso than other armies, Vampires, unfortunately for them, are also quite fast and maneuverable especially using Vanhel's Danse Macabre to move units out of charge arcs. Deny them the charge and the battle is almost won.

Ghouls are particularly rubbish against Brets though, Poison is no help against massed 2+AS, Trebuchets will butcher loads of them and they cost more than Zombies and Skeletons while not being much more survivable to Treb and Lance strikes.