Tau melee combat ect.

[Menthak]

Why do Tau apparently Disdain melee combat (considering it to be barbaric), even thought Ethereals use it exclusively and when they're such a smart race, how can they not even test melee combat out. And for that matter why are they stated to dislike static fighting, yet they've got a defence perimeter apoc formation

This isn't a rant btw, i'm just curious to small things within my codex

[Charistoph]

1) They treat warfare as Hunters, not Soldiers. Going for the kill at range is usually what a good hunter does.

2) They consider it to be barbaric, maybe some linkages back to the Mont'tau?

3) Ethereal combat is a highly ritualized affair, with death not being the goal, so it's not warfare. And if your Ethereal needs to use his badges of office when not in ritualized combat, he's in trouble.

4) When you have jet packs, railguns, and pulse rifles, do you REALLY need to "Drive forward so I can hit them with my sword"?

5) There was a WD about an Ethereal autopsy that indicated that how Tau eyes work make it difficult for them to focus on close up objects quickly, further hampering any close combat feats.

6) GW needed a dedicated ranged army race that focused on precision and power instead of volume.

7) When you have Kroot, Vespid, and Demiurg (and now Gue'las) to support you in close combat, why should you be there?

---

As for the dislike of static fighting, they don't hold objectives to just hold objectives. They hold them for extractions and for drawing in enemy units so they can put them in proper kill zones. Tau mobility and maneuvering is not easily represented on the tabletop at this time.

[Menthak]

Best reply I could've had, thanks.

[uga bug]

In answer to why Tau don't fight static battles is they know they can't win in attrition. Similar to Space marines they prefer tactical strikes for key objectives-they arrive, complete it and leave. As Charistoph stated its a part of the whole hunter style tactic.
The static defenses they do use; the drone defence perimter, are only for vitally strategic areas.

[Lord Damocles]

The Tau's static defence Apoc formation(s?) are really no stranger than those rapid-striking Marines having artillery and laying minefields...

[TheDoctor]

Isn't the Tau static defense stuff modular? So they can throw it up in a short time, defend it when necessary, take it down quickly and move on?

[dangerboyjim]

Sometimes you need to hold ground, bridges, ammo dumps, high ground etc.

I think the main point is they try to avoid attrition, they try to avoid being brought to the field unless they have a good idea that it will be an overwhelming victory.

The game doesn't really represent that very well, because in an even contest the Tau would really just bug out, which wouldn't be much fun. I think some of the battle missions stuff had some more likely scenarios.

[Charistoph]

Or have their skimmers be able outflank, deep strike, and/or Sky Leap.

[agurus1]

1)5) There was a WD about an Ethereal autopsy that indicated that how Tau eyes work make it difficult for them to focus on close up objects quickly, further hampering any close combat feats.

would be cool if they gave Tau a bonus for shooting over say 24" or something, made them count as 1 or 2 BS higher?

[lantzkev]

Most people don't like things they suck at? =P

[Kakapo42]

Why do Tau apparently Disdain melee combat (considering it to be barbaric), even thought Ethereals use it exclusively and when they're such a smart race, how can they not even test melee combat out. And for that matter why are they stated to dislike static fighting, yet they've got a defence perimeter apoc formation

This isn't a rant btw, i'm just curious to small things within my codex

The Ethereals don't use it at all. For internal disputes they have an extremely ritualized bloodless dueling system (which I imagine would look a bit like fencing), but out on the field they aren't supposed to be in or anywhere near combat. They don't like to have a ton of advanced technology though, so if they do get cornered then beating the enemy in with their symbols of office or honor blade is all they can fall back on.

As to 'not testing melee combat out', as has been stated, they have all sorts of fancy gizmos that let them zip around at high speed and use heavy firepower, they don't really need to use hand-to-hand fighting, and if they do, that's what the Kroot are for.

In regards to the Apoc formation, it explains in it's description that while the Tau don't like to fight static battles, they do establish defensive perimeters to fall back on if things get too dicey or for area-denial purposes.

[Lord Squidar]

Look like fencing? Never! It would look like Spock fighting Kirk with those gladiator tv show pole arm things, and the musical score would be Jim Carrey's voice talents =)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O23EzxT-Ug

[Voss]

Sometimes you need to hold ground, bridges, ammo dumps, high ground etc.

Depends on your theory of warfare, really. _Very_ broadly, the Imperium works on the static principles used in the First World War, with large armies of basic grunts holding positions and dying en masse, largely needlessly [because frankly population control is also a good thing for the Imperium]. Tau doctrines are a lot closer to SpecOps & Combined Arms forces of the very late 20th c and early 21st. The enemy army and its ability to make war is the objective; territory is absolutely irrelevant. Bridges and ammo dumps are better blown up and replaced afterwards, and high ground is a sucker bet, perfect for airstrikes. Preserving your troops is also much, much higher on the priority list [In terms of older theories of warfare, absurdly so].

The game doesn't really represent that very well, because in an even contest the Tau would really just bug out, which wouldn't be much fun. I think some of the battle missions stuff had some more likely scenarios.

They wouldn't necessarily duck from an even contest, but they'd likely not stand in a line waiting for the barbarians to charge in. Most of the problem is game mechanics- Firewarriors make a lot more sense if the pulse rifle is Assault 1 (and still 30") rather than rapid fire. Movement speed vs gun range is still very wacky.



And also, thanks to Lord Squidar for reminding me why I can't stand Jim Carrey. The lack of talent made me want to scream.

[otakuzoku]

hell even farsight douse not think melee is the best idea for the Tau. he is just fully aware (from fighting orks) that it can be unavoidable so you best be prepared for it (espeshley with orks). plus considdering that just about every other race (except guard) is better in melee. its best not to fight them were they have the advantage.

[dangerboyjim]

Depends on your theory of warfare, really. .

No, you really do.

You can't surrender every bit of ground the enemy contests, what if it's a major population center that you haven't the means or time to evacuate, do you just let them get slaughtered, or do you try and hold out? I think the Tau would try to make a fighting retreat, slowing the enemy down making counter strikes etc, but ultimately, some times you've got to hold your ground.

[Ivellis]

While I understand why Tau don't do close combat, I'd still love to see a unit of dual pistol wielding gunslingers as the CC Tau.

[ehlijen]

No, you really do.

You can't surrender every bit of ground the enemy contests, what if it's a major population center that you haven't the means or time to evacuate, do you just let them get slaughtered, or do you try and hold out? I think the Tau would try to make a fighting retreat, slowing the enemy down making counter strikes etc, but ultimately, some times you've got to hold your ground.

If the Tau method of warfare evolved while fighting other Tau, then they'd still give those cities up, knowing that they can try to retake it later as the enemy wouldn't wipe it out just out of principle. That the myriad of threats out in the galaxy wouldn't feel such a restraint is why the Tau are having a hard time adapting which could be a reason farsight is such an extremist.
That's where the Tau youth and naivete comes into play. They'd like for war to be clean, over quickly and decisive, but if no one else fights by their rules, they have to learn to make do without those luxuries.

[Charistoph]

If the Tau method of warfare evolved while fighting other Tau, then they'd still give those cities up, knowing that they can try to retake it later as the enemy wouldn't wipe it out just out of principle. That the myriad of threats out in the galaxy wouldn't feel such a restraint is why the Tau are having a hard time adapting which could be a reason farsight is such an extremist.
That's where the Tau youth and naivete comes into play. They'd like for war to be clean, over quickly and decisive, but if no one else fights by their rules, they have to learn to make do without those luxuries.

Not true. There are many instances where they dig in and defend a location. Aun'shi's story in the 3rd Edition codex is one of them. It's not their preference, and if they are invading, they usually don't setup defenses even for a landing area. Their preferred "defense" is the Kau'yon principle, where they draw the enemy into a kill zone by offering some bait, but that bait usually isn't civilians like the Imperium would do.

[chriscrowing]

I have to agree with the prevailing opinion here that the Tau operate a very fluid military doctrine, designed around superior movement (thanks to the Air Caste) and firepower (thanks to the big guns of the Fire Caste.)

Traditional military thinking holds things like high ground, cities, fortifications as things to be taken and held, however this tends to suck you into wars of attrition (see Stalingrad) and also limits your movement, comitting you to a pitched battle in the nearby land (Bannockburn, Alesia) - quite simply - forting up and waiting for relief costs you a LOPT of troops and doesn't always work. The Tau, as a young and relatively sparse race cannot afford the exchange of manpower the way the Imperium can.

The Tau will always try and evacuate a city rather than hold it, and thanks to their organisation, obedience and thw abilities of the Air Caste - they'll usually manage this.

The Tau will then use their mobility to draw a larger, more numerous foe into a pre-prepared firing zone and blow them to pieces at a distance. Tau casualties are kept to a minimum - this should work fine against Guard & Orks and maybe Nids, but when confronted by similarly limited numbers and swift moving foes like Marines and Eldar... gets interesting.

[Boneville]

but surely they would find themselves in close quarters sometimes, right? like if they get boarded or the enemy is hiding in mine complexes.

im a bit curious as how they would fight if they found themselves in these situations. any thoughts?