So how do people actually play BFG?

[sunnyside]

I'm considering getting into BFG, maybe see if I can get some people interested in it at the local store. And I'd rather we were up to speed with the community in case we wanted to go to a tourney or something, as opposed to being the tabletop wargaming equivalent of backwater hicks. :P Also sometimes they actually do make things better with additional rules, and I'm curious what you guys do in any case.

So the first question is ruleset. There is the stuff at the GW workshop page. But everybody uses the "2010 Faq" and "2010 compendium" correct? Also maybe one of the imperial armor books? Anything else?

Second, how do people actually tend to play the game? Pitched battles? The scenarios in the book by mutual decision, random chance, or attack ratings? Is the game commonly played campaign style or doesn't that work out well?

Third, does the metagame tend to revolve around beating Necrons? My newb impression, which seems to be supported by what I'm finding online, is that they're at least unbalancing if not ouright overpowered. It seems like a lot of fleets would be completely screwed unless they're deliberately loading up on lances? In part I ask because I was thinking of playing craftworld eldar, as that's what I play in 40K. However it looks like it might be an autoloss situation against necrons and I should consider something else like novacannon spam imperials. But again, that's just my impression, I haven't actually played a game yet.


Fourth, the 2010 Faq seems much more clear in regards to how ordenance works. But I'm still a little confused when it comes to fighters running into torpedos. For example if a group of 6 torps hits a group of 2 fighter markers what happens? How about 2 torps from an escort going into a group of six fighters?

[andrewchristlieb]

I use models and dice. Seriously tho most use the faq2010 some insist on gw only tho so ask to be sure. 1 fighter marker removes all torps. Necrons are far from over powered so don't go crazy building Gouda fleets . Pick one you like and find someone to run a few proxy games so you can get an idea what you like is what I would suggest, and google the elder mms if your really serious about cwe it makes them a lot more forgiving!

[Novrain]

My group uses the rulels from GW, and are flirting with adopting the 2010 FAQ wholeheartedly. We tend to play the scenarios in the book, but dislike the unequal points values so we sometimes play cruiser clash with a couple of rolls on the subplot table to make it interesting.

Battlefleet campaigns work really well, and are great fun, some pics and explanation of my most recent here: http://warforge.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=830

I can't say that there is a real "meta-game" for Battlefleet. The people who play it tend to much more fluff driven players than competitive players, whichh fits with the lack of GW support. If anything I think people build fleets with beating CW Eldar more than beating Necrons!

[Kakapo42]

One of the great things about being relatively obscure in the mainstream table-top world (or in GW's eyes at least) is that BFG doesn't attract that many competitive players, mostly just ones who enjoy hobby and fluff more, so there isn't really that much of a meta (although ordinance and carriers are sometimes considered quite powerful). Just go with whatever fleet you like the look of, if that fleet is Craftworld Eldar then go right on ahead and assemble a fleet of them!

From what I gather most folks just use a combination of the GW rules and the 2010 FAQ. At least that's what I do.

[carlisimo]

You know how some people play 40k without scenarios, just playing until one side is wiped out? It's not as good as the real thing. In BFG, it's even worse. A narrative mindset is best... especially when Necrons are involved. That's why half of their balancing is done through victory points adjustments. You win big by barely winning and then running the hell away (disengaging).

As for Eldar, it's a different issue. With too little "terrain" they're underpowered, and with too much they're overpowered. Some people play with a revised Eldar rules set that makes them behave more normally (they move, move, shoot instead move, shoot, move): http://sg.tacticalwargames.net/forum...hp?topic=208.0 . That's totally unofficial. Try the normal rules first, and if they don't work out for your gaming group then try those instead of buying a whole new fleet.

[mughi3]

I love BFG and one of the things thats so great about it is that it retains the 40K fluff.

we usually just do a random roll on the 12 missions in the main rulebook or choose one based on oppsing fleets.
for example this weekend i played againt a buddy with a marine/inquisition fleet with my chaos for fun i taught him how to play ythe randomness of escalating engagement. the scenerio actually favored him being marines rather than my chaos since it hurt the effectiveness of my concentrated long range firepower.


I wholy embrace the 2010 FAQ it makes the game better by bringing in more optional fleet builds and fluff rules(choas marked fleets, inquisitorial forces etc..)

As for the fan made alternate eldar rules......i will never use them, they negate what the eldar are in BFG- a hit&fade glass cannon fleet. They use solar sails and wraithbone so it fits with fluff that they engage in that sort of combat doctrine.

On the necron issue-

I see the necrons there as a counter to the eldar, in the fluff necrons are older, more advance and have been at it with the eldar longer than the emperor has been alive. fighting them with non-eldar fleets can be diifficult if you do not know how to handle them. once you learn a few smart tactics and realise their weaknesses and couple that with the high VP exchange they do not become that scary.

FW/GW
GW made a real mistake in my opinion back when they created tourney play for 40K because they created an artificial mindset of what was legal and not legal in the game based on what tourney organisers wanted or didn't want. it also drew in alot of D-bag players who tend to be more interested in winning/arguing that having a fun game. here is the simple reality-

GW is a parent company over a multiple division game company with departments of 40K related merchandice. -black library, citidel paints, FW models etc....
All these items are there to buy and play with in the game universe of 40K, the company makes money off of selling their products, they WANT you to buy and play with ALL their miniatures. any artificial rules restrictions added by players and player groups is totally in-house and up to them.

I am fortunate to play with a large group of mature for-fun gamers who do not give a rip what you bring as long as it has some official rules and you bring them with the models.

[horizon]

Eldar: official Eldar are non-fluffy and unbalanced.
The official Eldar rules is the reason Necrons vs Eldar and Eldar vs Orks is skrewed (unless you go all Terror for Orks).

We play scenarios, mostly fleet engagment, escalating engagement. But sometimes the others as well. Can make heck of fun.

Mughi, keep in mind FAQ2010 is purely seen still unofficial. Not that it matters though.

Rulewise we use FAQ2010 aside of some bits (eg overlapping) but also still the blastmarker rules from '99.

[andrewchristlieb]

Idk if the msm eldar are really unbalanced so much as people just dont like playing against them, msm is the fluff however and saying that they are not fluffy is a bit odd just about every reference to how they move mentions how difficult it is to catch them because they attack then move off before you can react. That aside mms does fix a lot of issues with eldar and eliminates a good bit of over complicated rules. Overall msm and necrons both suffer from the same problem which is that until the game is over and the scores are tallied your not going to feel like your winning and it really just not fun to win because the three ships you killed were worth more than the twelve you lost.

[horizon]

..., msm is the fluff however and saying that they are not fluffy is a bit odd just about every reference to how they move mentions how difficult it is to catch them because they attack then move off before you can react.

'kay then msm:
A dying Race:

* that has NO defence against space debris/rocks

* that has literally (lousy right shift) NO defence vs the most common weapon a low mon-keigh can produce (1 wb dice at 60.000km can kill a full Eldar escort with a 50% chance. That is bs to me)

* with celestial phenomena eldar own, without they don't.

* Wraithbone ain't weak. :/

* vica versa: aboard IN ship with 60cm (60000km) range weapons:
"Captain, we picked up an Eldar ship at 60000km distance." (probably further away but 'kay then).
Captain snoozes
"Captain, range is 45000km"
Captain snoozes
"Captain, range is 30000km & shoots"
Captain snooze... orders BFI (yay, he unsnoozes).
bboom bbbomm ship is hit
"Captain Eldar ship turns, range is 45000km"
Captain snoozes
"Captain Eldar ship at 60000km"
Captain snoozes
5 min later...
"Helm! Plot a course to intercept Eldar..."

That is what MSM is... speed & catching is one thing. Being silly another
MMS still is about Eldar speed & manouevrability etc.

ah well.. the thread isn't about Eldar.

[jlmb_123]

Admittedly, Orks are a difficult fleet to use, but they really aren't that bad if you're happy to just go for a slugging match and don't try anything fancy, but then only the Chaos and Imperial fleets have comprehensive, all-rounder lists available to them.

The thing that struck me when I started planning out my fleet a few months ago is that BFG is one of those games which has fancy rules (Special Orders) which you don't actually need to use. 40k, Necromunda, Warhammer and most other GW games encourage players to roll lots of dice, but I think that BFG, like Blood Bowl, benefits from avoiding doing things like this. The only Special Order you really need to use is Reload Ordnance: depending on turning 90-degrees in one turn in a Come To New Heading order to deliver a broadside and failing some leadership tests, leaving your ships pointing in different directions and unsupported, is asking for trouble when you could have spent two turns turning 45-degrees.

It seems a pity that BFG hasn't received the support that Epic and Blood Bowl have from the community, but I imagine that it's because in BFG it's more about scenario variation bringing variety to the game than army lists.

[sunnyside]

Well, the scenarios mess with the fleet lists right? I mean you could bring a list of nothing but high end cruisers and battleships, but if you find yourself the attacker on convery you'll just be fielding deadfall torpedos right? So there is pressure to bring escorts and cheaper cruisers, and even then you don't know what will actually hit the table for sure.

On the note of being fluffy, am I reading things right for the rogue traders in that I could have some rogue trader cruisers, and some required cargo ships, but then each cruiser could have an associated squadron of of Eldar Hemlocks at normal cost and rules?

That is what MSM is... speed & catching is one thing. Being silly another
MMS still is about Eldar speed & manouevrability etc.

ah well.. the thread isn't about Eldar.

That's just the silliness inherant in a turn based game. I mean is it less silly for the captain to snooze such that the ship doesn't fire once while the Orks fly up and board them? Or less silly for the queen to just sit there while the rook comes at her from waaaaay over on the other side of the board?

[horizon]

Well, the scenarios mess with the fleet lists right? I mean you could bring a list of nothing but high end cruisers and battleships, but if you find yourself the attacker on convery you'll just be fielding deadfall torpedos right? So there is pressure to bring escorts and cheaper cruisers, and even then you don't know what will actually hit the table for sure.

For every scenario you still need to follow the fleet list. But if the scenario being played is a surprise you can find yourself caught red-handed with an ill suited fleet, yes.

On the note of being fluffy, am I reading things right for the rogue traders in that I could have some rogue trader cruisers, and some required cargo ships, but then each cruiser could have an associated squadron of of Eldar Hemlocks at normal cost and rules?

Something like that, yes. Have to re-read.


/Eldar
Well msm takes to IgoUgo into a doubled sillyness. MSM would still be silly in an alternative system (eg initiative based).

[sunnyside]

For every scenario you still need to follow the fleet list. But if the scenario being played is a surprise you can find yourself caught red-handed with an ill suited fleet, yes.

Now to be clear the way it works is that both people have lists, the way someone in 40k would have an army. 1500 sounds like a very popular number.

Then you roll off based on attack rating, unless you've decided to try something specific out. The winner picks, or you tie and roll randomly.

After that, can you do things like split up squadrons (for example if you have a squadron of 6 escorts that's over 150 points, and you're playing convoy, could you split them up into smaller groups to match the 100 and 150 points slots for that?

What happens if you don't have a ship cheap enough for the bait or any cruiser in you fleet for exterminatus (like some of the Eldar all escort lists I'm reading about)?

Do you just have a laugh and roll again?

[Kakapo42]

That's what I'd do, since I'd assume something like an all escort Eldar fleet probably wouldn't conduct any Exterminatus missions. Or Planetary assaults for that matter. It'd really be more of a force that raids shipping I'd imagine.

[andrewchristlieb]

While it can occur where both players don't met the requirements it's pretty typical for one of them to. In this situation I would just swap attacker and defender. For instance your Eldar escort fleet while unable to exterminate a planet will make excellent defenders against an extermination.

[wilsongrahams]

I tend to use the original rule book for the most part. As for fleet selection and getting screwed on mission - surely you would just do what the hell you feel like anyway? It's a game, not law. I'm also pretty sure that somewhere in the design notes it covers using orks and eldar and the scenarios - the scenarios are mostly based around imperial vs chaos and that some situations may arise and that you have to reroll certain missions - this may be because eldar and orks only ever do raids and not battles - this part may be in the campaign section.

Most games I have played are planned games. Once in a while we plan a game, discuss it a little, then pick a balanced fleet and turn up with it. Pick-up and tournament games are very uncommon as far as I can tell mainly because the game is so rarely played. Any game is open to spamming and abuse and will have match-ups that are little fun, but the onus is on the players to avoid this. I really do suggest you plan and discuss your game before you expect to play. For a campaign, you are more likely to want to stick with the randomly rolled mission so it will be your own fault if you don't have squadrons etc in your fleet that will fit all the different missions. There is a self-included penalty in having only large escort squadrons. Whilst better in regular games, you may find them not turn up at all and you lose single ships easily due to them being the only ship that turned up.

Overall you should always try to have a balanced list. A mis of weapon options, no spamming etc, and you will all have a lot more fun. If one of your group's players finds they are always winning or losing and it seems to have more to do with the fleet than the dice, discuss it and give a bonus or penalty to points for that fleet. Start with 10% and adjust as you see fit. Until you know who is playing and what they take in their fleets, nothing can be commented on beforehand regarding balance. If one player feels they like winning and won't take a penalty yet all others disagree, I would expect he/she'd start finding it harder to get games in. Nobody wants to turn up for a game they know will be boring and that they will lose. I've never encountered such a match up yet but then I don't have a diverse group and only play good friends so there is little competitiveness in the builds.

[horizon]

A previous note I forgot to reply on:

It seems a pity that BFG hasn't received the support that Epic and Blood Bowl have from the community, but I imagine that it's because in BFG it's more about scenario variation bringing variety to the game than army lists.

What?

Warp Rift, a fanmade ezine (which is still alive).
Various fanmade supplements
BFG:Revised project
even FAQ/compendium 2010 was made possible due fan involvement

On fleet (army) lists: BFG got plenty officially seen already. Add warp rift lists etc and you got so many you won't see the bush through the trees...

BFG has every 40K race covered with fleets, rules & models.

So...?

[Satan]

I don't get to play very often nowadays (if I ever got around to finishing up my marine fleet I might though), but I'm very happy that BFG is alive and kicking, with scenario and fleet lists available in FW books for example.

[Castro]

I just wish there were players in New Jersey - I haven't played in such a long time and I would love to start playing BFG again

[sunnyside]

I just wish there were players in New Jersey - I haven't played in such a long time and I would love to start playing BFG again

Well, it's possible you might have to recruit some players for it :P That's a lot easier with BFG as it's vastly cheaper to get into than Fantasy or 40K. It's also very convenient in that you can just print off nice looking terrain and fit that and your whole fleet into one of the small pouches on your backback. If you've got a local game store you could just bring that (and maybe loaner fleet to hook new players) while you lug around the masses of containers with a fantasy or 40K army.

Also if you don't use meetup I'd suggest looking into it. You might be surprised to find how many gaming groups are in your area, or you could start a new group.