High Elf wishlisting...

[Perfect Fool]

Here's a few things I'd like to see done to tweak the High Elves when we finally get our army book (next year sometime I heard rumoured?) along with a couple of guesses as to stuff we'll probably see.

1) Remove Speed of Asuryan from everything.

2) Cut point costs on all troops to account for the removal of SoA.

3) Grant Swordmasters -1 to be hit from ranged attacks (arrow/bullet deflection) and give them a rule that lets them strike in Initiative order but not get re-rolls.

4) Give Spear Elves & Sea Guard either heavy armour as standard or as an option. Make High Elf core the best protected amongst the elves to distinguish them from Dark Elves (the killiest).

5) Move Silver Helms to core.

6) Have a 50 point magic item that grants a 4+ ward save to both bearer and mount vs. shooting attacks so that dragons & griffons aren't total cannon-bait.

7) Reduce the cost of RBTs.

8) Bring back Eltharion the Blind.

9) nerf Teclis and get rid of the Book of Hoeth; they're crutches and not much fun to play with or against.

Guesses as to what'll probably happen:

1) Apparently there's going to be a flying chariot. Not really that excited by the idea to be honest.

2) They'll probably be some kind of Monstrous Cavalry of some description, too. I wouldn't mind White Lion Cavalry, but they'd be nowhere near as good as Demi-Gryphons or Mournfangs going by the lion's current profile. M8, WS5, S5, W2?, I4, A2, SV 4+ isn't all that scary compared to the others, so they'd have to be a fair bit cheaper.

[IcedCrow]

Here's a few things I'd like to see done to tweak the High Elves when we finally get our army book (next year sometime I heard rumoured?) along with a couple of guesses as to stuff we'll probably see.

1) Remove Speed of Asuryan from everything.

I'd keep it for a couple units.

2) Cut point costs on all troops to account for the removal of SoA.

High Elf troops in general could be lowered in cost due to their extreme fragile nature. While awesome offensively, even archers can mow them down at ease which limits the build types of elf armies.

3) Grant Swordmasters -1 to be hit from ranged attacks (arrow/bullet deflection) and give them a rule that lets them strike in Initiative order but not get re-rolls.

I'd keep the ASF rule for swordmasters. It makes them a very lethal unit as they should be. -1 to be hit from ranged attacks wouldn't make me blink either.

4) Give Spear Elves & Sea Guard either heavy armour as standard or as an option. Make High Elf core the best protected amongst the elves to distinguish them from Dark Elves (the killiest).

If elves get heavy armor (i'm not 100% opposed to this) then keep their points cost about where they are. They'd have a 4+ save, which is not aweful granted they are T3, but you want to be careful about giving access to cheap hordes of them.

5) Move Silver Helms to core.

Meh either way.

6) Have a 50 point magic item that grants a 4+ ward save to both bearer and mount vs. shooting attacks so that dragons & griffons aren't total cannon-bait.

This should probably be expanded in the core rules to any monster mounts.

7) Reduce the cost of RBTs.

To what?

8) Bring back Eltharion the Blind.

Agree, he was a cool character.

9) nerf Teclis and get rid of the Book of Hoeth; they're crutches and not much fun to play with or against.

Yes x1000. Teclis is busted and busts the game.

Guesses as to what'll probably happen:

1) Apparently there's going to be a flying chariot. Not really that excited by the idea to be honest.

2) They'll probably be some kind of Monstrous Cavalry of some description, too. I wouldn't mind White Lion Cavalry, but they'd be nowhere near as good as Demi-Gryphons or Mournfangs going by the lion's current profile. M8, WS5, S5, W2?, I4, A2, SV 4+ isn't all that scary compared to the others, so they'd have to be a fair bit cheaper.

[/quote]

Nothing is confirmed on the rumour front though I wouldn't doubt the lion cavalry as GW is on the monstrous cavalry unit spree.

[Urgat]

I would doubt the lion cavalry as it's obvious and GW has not released an obvious choice once during 8th ed

[Perfect Fool]

I'd say RBTs are probably worth about 70 points at a push; certainly no more. Archers are generally better against almost everything.

I wouldn't mind SMs keeping ASF to be honest; just hate the rule army wide, it's horrible to balance.

Heavily armoured spear elves are probably worth 8 pts or so, if there's a buffing machine in the list (like the VC or Empire equivalents) I can see them being 9-10pts though. GW seem keen on unit synergy, big kits and unusual decisions so I really don't know.

If they don't do lion riders (which would be hard to balance with the current stat line and still keep good, low T average armour save MC really isn't that attractive TBH) then I think they'll probably get something similar; can't see any MI turning up, don't thin they'd fit in very well!

[IcedCrow]

The problem with 70 point RBTs is that in a 2000 point list you could take 7 of them. That's potentially 42 48" S4 -2 to the save shots with BS4 and the ability to have curse of arrow attraction put on a target unit. I would say at 70 points they'd need a cap to avoid massive gunline-type spam.

[Mozzamanx]

There is also the potential for Drake Riders to be introduced. They've already featured in the War of the Beard list and were essentially minor Nobles riding mini-Dragons. Would fit with the huge rise in MC units as well as cementing the Elves as 'the Dragon race'.
I also fully expect to see SoA disappear, although perhaps a different Army-wide rule will be implemented in its place. High Elves always seemed the most defensive of the 3 Elves and so perhaps the ability to Parry with different weaponry.

[IcedCrow]

Drake riders would be awesome. Flying cav like pegasus knights... I think that that image is very much cool and would definitely be something I could see in a high elf army.

[Rodster]

The problem with 70 point RBTs is that in a 2000 point list you could take 7 of them. That's potentially 42 48" S4 -2 to the save shots with BS4 and the ability to have curse of arrow attraction put on a target unit. I would say at 70 points they'd need a cap to avoid massive gunline-type spam.

I know the RBT says armor piercing, but doesn't the 8th Edition Rulebook state that there is no armor save now against bolt throwers?

[Rodster]

If SOA is removed, then High Elves will need something to compensate how easily they die. The only unit in the entire army with a good armor save are DP's and they are not much for offense. I wouldn't mind seeing Teclis not have irresistable force on any double, but it should then be replaced with something else to make him worthwhile. With the protection from miscasts when using Lore of Life, and the fact that Teclis can be killed very easily, if he is simply nerfed, he might as well then be eliminated because he won't be on any lists. I certainly hope the flying chariot rumor is dead wrong. I don't even like chariots to begin with, let alone flying ones. Flying cavalry would be cool though.

[Hoshiyami]

I agree completely with removing ASF armywide, adjusting point cost/rules to match. Just two or three things I'd like to see...

Add some kind of rule to dragon mage as 'blood pact' or something like it, giving them some kind of warmachine/charriot-like combined stats (using the dragon's T and W, making them useful).

Either remove citizen levy rules (lowering points) or let them choose their equipment replacing the spears (hand weapon, halberds...). This rule is just a little cruel when you realize you need 20 9-points-each spearmen to reach combat to make the most of it.

Oh, and do something with the bowmen...

PS:

I know the RBT says armor piercing, but doesn't the Rulebook state that there is no armor save now against bolt throwers?

It just happens with the 'normal' bolt, not with the 6 shoots.

[Hoshiyami]

The problem with 70 point RBTs is that in a 2000 point list you could take 7 of them. That's potentially 42 48" S4 -2 to the save shots with BS4 and the ability to have curse of arrow attraction put on a target unit. I would say at 70 points they'd need a cap to avoid massive gunline-type spam.

Right now, even if the were 10 points each you'd be able to take 4 of them (4 rare option at 2000 points), wouldn't you?

[Rodster]

PS:



It just happens with the 'normal' bolt, not with the 6 shoots.

Thanks for clarifying that for me Hoshyiyami!

[Tarliyn]

Never understood the asf hatred. Even in 7th it was that bad and it affected things a lot more than it does now.

My wishlist is make my dragon good again. I started high elfs because of dragons and now feel gimped most of the time if I take him.


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[Rodster]

Never understood the asf hatred. Even in 7th it was that bad and it affected things a lot more than it does now.

My wishlist is make my dragon good again. I started high elfs because of dragons and now feel gimped most of the time if I take him.


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Now that any strength hits can wound on a roll of 6, all big things are a bit iffy to take.

[Rodster]

[QUOTE=IcedCrow


Yes x1000. Teclis is busted and busts the game.


If the IF on any double is removed, perhaps it could be replaced with an additional plus to casting attempts? He is supposed to be one of the best casters in the world...this would keep it that way and not be rediculous.

[Wildchild200]

Firstly you can only ever have 4 of the same rare unit ( and thats only because HE always count as a grand army, otherwise its two at under 3000pts)
Also if i were to guess, i'd say we'd be getting loads more rare choices and Silver Helms be moved to core. This is because we already have a large special section but pretty small rare(2 choices) and core(3 choices) so core becomes 4 choices which seems fine. Special would have 7 choices (i think?)
I could see them adding Imrik back in as a special character, and having the kit build him on dragon or a bare dragon as a rare choice. As for the obligatory monstrous unit, i can see GW going further with the Dragon theme and give us Dragon princes on Drakes but i'd be happy with White lion cavalry too.

[IcedCrow]

Right now, even if the were 10 points each you'd be able to take 4 of them (4 rare option at 2000 points), wouldn't you?

4 bolt throwers is 24 shots. 7 bolt throwers is 42 shots. Big difference =) 4 bolt throwers in a 2000 point game is not as bad.

[Urgat]

Aren't RBT two for one?

[Wildchild200]

Not anymore. i believe they used to be and dark elves still get that but not high elves

[Hoshiyami]

High elves have ~twice the slots, but just 1 RBT/great eagle per slot. Before the current book (with a 'normal' slot distribution) they had 2.