Drake riders please!!
They would probably look awesome. 50x75 or 50x100 you think?
Drake riders please!!
They would probably look awesome. 50x75 or 50x100 you think?
-Warhammer IS fun...right?
As far as the monstrous cav ideas go, I'd probably see small dragons being the most likely idea. From what I've seen from the current 8th edition re-releases, they've started to take things already with models and making a smaller/bigger version of them that has never been mentioned in previous fluff (arachnorok=big giant spiders, demigryphs=small griffons, crypt horrors=big ghouls, mournfang=..... I don't even know). Personally, I want to see them put more of a focus onto the less mentioned cities, like eataine and tor yversse (I know they have eltharion for this, but I want a unit dedicated to them, but this probably won't happen)
Above all though, I want shadow warriors to be worth my time and money. Seriously, was Adam Troke (and the rest of the team) drunk when he wrote their rules?
Drake riders sounds much more appealing than White Lion Cavalry; tactically they could be good fun to use too. I could imagine them being M6, WS4, S4 or 5, T3, W3, I5, A3 Save 2+ or something similar. That +flying would make them about on par with Demi-Gryphons and keep their profile in line with the types of dragon.
I like the idea of Teclis getting an additional bonus to cast at the price of losing IF on any double; he's still reasonably good without IF on doubles anyway if you actually add up how much the rest of his equipment is worth, though!
How would you change Shadow Warriors to make them worthwhile? They've never been particularly good compared to the other special choices for as long as I can remember, all the way back to the first High Elf book almost everything in the list has been a better option. Maybe give them poisoned attacks? Access to great weapons? A big points cut?
1. Make shadow warriors good.
2. Make silver helms core (making them special not only made them go unused, but it made the army a lot less diversified)
3. Fix Teclis
4. Focus more on the less mentioned cities
5. Keep shield of saphery, but make the large version have a bubble effect
6. Bring back th old cool special characters. Blind Eltharion. Imrik. Who even uses Alith Anar? (even though I think his background is amazing, the gaming side of the hobby doesn't really have a place for him)
7. Points deduction across the board ang getting rid of SoA
Thats basically my wishlist
SoA removed for everyone but Swordmasters.
Armywide fight in an extra rank for everyone (if spearmen can get it, everyone else can).
Additional hand weapon option for Shadow warriors.
I would like to see...
Speed of Asurian on Swordmasters, they deserve it.
HE need another more fluffy special rule that fits better than SOA. It should be something to do with the defensive nature of their Army. Something like all units gain a parry save in combat, or -1 to be hit in combat to a maximum on 5+ because of how good they are at defending in combat.
Phoenix guard I always felt should be unbreakable in combat, because they can see the future. They already know whats going to happen, so why bother running. Obviously remove the 4++ if they become unbreakable.
Dragon Princes get ithilmar barding back, become strength 4 base.
Silver Helms, move to core, have Ithilmar Barding.
Elyrian Reavers move to core.
Teclis casts irrisitibly on any doubles on the first spell cast per turn. No longer ignores first miscast. Adds +1 power die and dispell die, not D3.
Book of Hoeth, casts irrisitibly on any doubles on the first spell cast per turn.
Reapeater Bolt Throwers should remain expensive so people don't spam them. Theres nothing I hate more than a gun line.
Instead I imagine Bolt Throwers working like this. Solid Shot Strength 8. Multishot works like this. Target a unit within 48" then place the small blast template. For every model under the template fire 1 Strength 4 armour piercing bolt. Roll to hit and to wound as normal, or Target a unit within 48" then place the large blast template. For every model under the template fire 1 Strength 2 armour piercing bolt. Roll to hit and to wound as normal It blanket fires a hail of arrows in a certain area, we will fight in the shade kinda deal.
As for new Units. I could see...
Shrine of Asurian, Chariot with 6" buff that makes units ASF.
Drake Riders like from War of the Beard.
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1. Lose SoA, gain ASF on Martial Lords and Heroes. Armywide special rule, Warrior Elite Reroll failed to hit rolls except in the first turn of combat.
2. ASF on swordmasters
3. Units of Drake Riders
4. New Hero, warrior mage type
5. Units of Great Eagles 3-15
6. Upgrades to Bolt Throwers. Extra Crew. Flaming Attacks. Str Boost. Magic Attacks.
7. Shadow Warrior Hero.
8. Deployable Waystones to quench magic, and work as turrets.
9. Stoic. All HE units are stubborn when fighting DE.
10. Units of chariots
11. All HE mages channel dispel dice on 5+
12. Champions of High elf Units may buy Magical attacks as an upgrade for 5 points (only the champ not the whole unit)
I'm joking if somone didn't get that Obviously I don't want them to be a copy paste job of shades, but bringing them closer to being shades wouldn't hurt. What I''m thinking is dropping their points down to 12-14, giving them some sort of bonus to their longbows to compete with repeater crossbows or waywatcher bows, maybe something like increased range or no modifier for being at long range. If they're going to have hatred, they might as well be able to do something with it. Although I don't see poisoned attacks as being too realistic, just the option of some combat weapon such as a great weapon (like you said) would help a lot. Obviously my suggestions aren't the perfect rules but something along those lines, IMO would be ideal, and would actually make me consider taking them.
1. Remove SoA, the 8th ed rules for ASF made this broken. But reduce the points of the army to reflect this.
2. Swordmasters strike at their regular initiative.
3. Fix Teclis.
4. Some bonus against Dark Elves.
5. Some advance in the full timeline right up to the Storm of Chaos.
6. Bring back Blind Eltharion.
For all of you people saying..
First, you do realize that the High Elves 7th Ed. book was designed with 7th Ed. in mind right? They were released BEFORE VC, before DoC, before Dark Elves and before Lizardmen. This is just to give you guys an idea of when High Elves were released.Remove SoA, the 8th ed rules for ASF made this broken. But reduce the points of the army to reflect this.
Second, SoA was made in an edition where the high points associated with High Elves was to represent their "eliteness" on the battlefield - being few in number. They are designed to be the Grey Knights of Fantasy in that respect. To represent their elite nature, they were given SoA to act as alpha strike damage IN ORDER to preserve their fragility. Speed of Asuryan is not just damage, it was designed to be a damage BUFFER so they don't get mauled in close combat.
When 8th Ed. came around, the High Elf army changed completely. They became a lot more killy because of ASF and re-rolls to hit, but they lost the damage buffer that they can no longer kill their enemies before they get to strike back. Stepping up eliminated this genius concept and what you have left is an army that's extremely killy but extremely cost-ineffective at taking damage in return.
So before you guys keep saying, take away SoA and decrease the points for all High Elf units, keep in mind how it was originally designed. If anything, Speed of Asuryan (with 7th Ed. in mind) was the greatest design achievement I've seen from GW's books in a long time. They managed to capture the High Elf army's playstyle completely with one single rule. I just hope they re-balance SoA for 8th in the new HE book without messing it up.
I'd like to see the High Elves keep Army-wide ASF, but the weapons aren't ignored (White Lions and Swordmasters hit at initiative), Silver Helms to core, maybe a point or 2 increase. Drake riders would be nice, and could add to our Rare selection. I don't think Teclis needs to change much, maybe +1PD/DD instead of D3
It's not pronounced "ass-tarts" silly
Mighty Empires Campaign rules and drop some suggestions:
When Alessio made the 6ht edition skaven book he wanted to add a unit entry in each section belonging to each great clan. Whuiel doing the same thing for high elves with kingdoms is impractical (there are 4 great clans,and the warlord clan option makes that 5, there are 10 kingdoms on Ulthuan) they should try to have a roughly balanced amount of entries from the diffrent kingdoms which means Yvresse Chotigue and avelorn should get stuff (i can let go of Avelorn though because the elves there are so close to wood elfs that you should use that list).
I must strongly oppose chrace (Whit elions and lion chariot) caledor (dragon princes and dragon mages) and saphery (Mages and swordsmasters) gettign any more units. Especially Lion cavalery for charce, elves riding on cats is so generic high fantasy that it creepy and chrace is supposed to be the least populated kingdom (Or is that nagarythe?) seems strange they'd have more units than the others.
The score right now is:
Avelorn: 0 (or its own army book depending on how you look at it)
The question is ofcourse are characters units in this or not and are dragons, griffons and eagles and such considered to be indapendant or Chrace/caledor.
Ofcourse the realms without a unit is the ones thta it has never been gone into any detail on how they fight. Cotique i just a bunch of fishermen (fisherelfs?), Yvresse is hiding behind its mists and Avelorn is well wood elfs and maiden guard. Problem with adding maiden guard is thta they're very similiar to the LSG. Maybe they could be added back as some sort of elite archers? giving the high elfs some much needed high str attacks outside of bolt throwers (and heavy armour like the archers in the ancient east).
I'm still opposed to lion knights, i'd much prefer drakeriders then even if i still want them to add units to the less used kingdoms. We dont need cotique and Yvresse to be the two lost space marine legions. This is warhammer there isnt room for that kind of thing.
When it comes to teclis making him misscast on all doubles is out of the question, high elf magic is suposed to be stable. I'd rather see him ignore all IR/misscasts and then maybee always geting his spells of anyway meaning he doesnst crush the enemy with one mighty spell but casts spell after spell after spell until they cant diepsell anymore. seems alot more like teclis. And i Use alith anar so: "Take your stinking paws off him, you damned dirty ape!"
I think SOA should read, elves always strike in initiative order, unless when they would otherwise strike first. And then some more minor defence buff, maybe letting elves parry with a spear? Or elves always gettign to parry regardless of weapon.
Regarding silver helms as core, I want to remind everyone why they were made special in the first place. because everyone fielded all cavalery elf armies in 6th. Now that wouldnt be effective in 8th anyway i guess because of steadfast so i guess they could add them back to core.
Maybe shadow warriors and maiden guard (as armoured elite archers as i descibed above) could have a elven long bow with str 4 (but move and fire making it diffrent from normal crossbows) this could also be given to eagle eyes of archer units. And while some of you may exclaim: "But thats better than galde guard longbows!" keep in mind that glade guar dis the most basic wood elf infantery unit while MG would be and shadow warriors are more expensive (in this incarnation they'd prolly have to go up a few points even)
I like the idea of giving them something extra with their shooting, but S4 bows proabably isnt the way forward. Like I said in my previous post, we don't want a copy and paste job of shades. Neither do we want a copy and paste job of glade guard longbows. I think that we could have something similar but I think that something like that could really be the way forward.Maybe shadow warriors and maiden guard (as armoured elite archers as i descibed above) could have a elven long bow with str 4 (but move and fire making it diffrent from normal crossbows) this could also be given to eagle eyes of archer units.
Perfect Fool is on the right track. Those changes bring HE more in line with the rest of 8th edition.
Then there's room to look back at previous editions. Perhaps multiple wound on white lions to emphasise their role as big beast hunters. RBTs should be s8 single and s6 multi to justify the current cost... or d6 wounds single shot and penetrates ranks on multi to make them worth their 100pts.
They are also guilty of being very plain and typical fantasy elves. GW have gone towards making all the 8th edition armies noticably more 'warhammer' than their previous versions. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few new kits that do this; really out of left-field kits.
Druchii.net for all your Dark Elf needs
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∞+1 (just because I can).
Curses! You found me!
/AgreeI think SOA should read, elves always strike in initiative order, unless when they would otherwise strike first. And then some more minor defence buff
Maybe "grace of movement" 6+ ward to dodge and a bonus of +1 to armour... in effect an extra shield
My Fantasy Plog (Skaven, Wood Elves, High Elves)
Losing ASF would be great. (except for Swordmasters) Once you do that you need a points drop (which GW loves) and something else to help HE against the 8th edition step up mechanic. I made a new book a long while back that did these:
The Asur citizen levy train and fight as a cohesion unit of spears. Years of service and dedication can achieve a nearly impenetrable wall of weapons
for their foes to waste themselves against, all the while maximizing their defense from the protection of the spearman beside them.
When using a spear on foot to the front, High Elves may attack in an additional rank. High Elves using a spear and shield may
Made with unequalled skill, Asur armor is forged with Ithilmar. Some races prefer to gain protection by increasing the thickness of their plate
while the Asur instead make the armor style of their ancestors from stronger material. This gives a High Elven warrior the ability of wearing armor
that remains somewhat light and yet still capable of turning away even the strongest of blows.
If allowed an armor save, Ithilmar Armor cannot be modified to less than it’s basic armor value. (i.e., 5+ if wearing heavy armor
and 6+ if wearing light armor.)
I also think they could make some easy buffs to Core Units (only) by province to let people get creative with the HE armies. Something like this:
Avelorn - Magic Resistance (2)
Caledor - Immune to Fear and Terror
Chrace - Forest Strider
Cothique - Re-roll failed To Hit rolls when shooting
Ellyrion - Always March
Eataine - Champion may take magic items up to 25 pts.
Nagarythe - Nagarythe Hatred
Saphery - Magical Attacks
Tiranoc - Immune to Impact hits
Yvresse - Re-roll failed Armor Saves
I'm not saying these are perfect or anything, but they certainly have a wealth of material to work with to make the HE army fun and versatile in ways that are different from the other T3 armies. (Instead of ASF) I really like the idea of Core Units being a major component of any HE army. They have all the support units fleshed out very well for flavor and variety. I also do very much like the idea of Caledorian Princes on drakes as a Rare monterous choice. Especially considering the ending to the last HE novel.
I'm very worried about how the trend in low magic items for the new books with hit us. I love our magic items now.
In battle, the armies of the High Elves are a glorious sight to behold. [...] With a mystical grace and agility that is incomparable to the lumpen, slothful gestures of lesser mortals, they cleave through the foe with spear and blade - their skill and speed a match for any foe.
Ahh... always brings a tear to my eye to dwell upon the poor misfortune of the other races of our world.
Heavy Armour on Spearelves
Silver Helms return to Core
Lion Chariot Rare and double in points so noone takes this abomination that should not exist.
Phoenix Guard should be Rare and Caradryan should be a Champion upgrade
Korhil a Champion upgrade for White Lions
No Lion Cavalry. Ever.
Pegasus & Unicorn as mounts for characters
Eltharion remains the Warden Of Tor Yvresse on Stormwing. That retarded superjedininjauberswordmaster version remains an aberration used to flog a few issues of White Dwarf.
Sheena Easton Is Fabulous!Originally Posted by Blkc57
- no ASF on anything but Swordmasters
- Spears used by High Elves 'count as' hand weapons (so spears give the +1 rank, and can be used in conjuction with shields for parry)
- Fight in Extra Ranks
- Points cost reductions on a great many things
- Unridden Dragons in Rare
- Dragon Riders in rare (yes, full sized dragons. Tell me you wouldn't want 'em)
- Drake Riders (smaller dragons. Flying Monstrous Cavalry? Hells to the yeah!)
- a reduction in the brokeness of Teclis
- a buff to the awesomeness of Tyrion
- An increase to survivability. Whilst not a fan of 'buffmobiles for all!', high elves are definitely known to use magic extensively and value their lives highly. A regen/ ward/ negative modify to enemy to hit rolls would be very nice