Removing Eldar Pathfinders? (and any cover save model)

[ChickenMacNugget]

I just played a HUGELY proxied game with my friend... 2500 points, I had around 500 points of that assembled, he had around 300 points. None the less it was an awesome game but there was one thing that just slowed me down for a few turns due to them soaking up my fire like crazy: PATHFINDERS!

Really nice unit it seems, and with a 3+ save in the cover we had on the board, it took me far too long to remove them with 2 vindicators, a 5 man tac squad and some speeder's melta (I couldn't move up to get my flamer because they were BOTH immobilized on turn one... sigh.

It'd be nice to get a discussion going on how to remove pesky models with awesome cover saves... It has probably been done before but there's no harm in getting fresh ideas. Template weapons are a pretty obvious choice because they ignore all cover, but it's all about delivery... What do you think is best? I'll put up a poll with a few options (obviously not a lot) to see what people think on the best way to remove cover save models!

[Panzer MkIV]

A Whirlwind with incendiary missiles?

[gutsmaka]

originally I thought that this thread was hating on pathfinders, nice to see I'm proven wrong . anyway, the most annoying unit for killing "in cover units" that I faced is 3 baal predators with those super-heavy flamers of theirs. kills anything that isnt wearing terminator armour, cover or not. therefore I picked other

[ChickenMacNugget]

Nice replies!

Whirlwind seems like fun too... "scatter! awww none hit :'(" and I love blast templates.... muhahhaa.

Ah yeah forgot about the Baal, so annoyed I cant use it on him... he'd cry... so much. :P

[Bunnahabhain]

Well my typical answers are....

Most common: Ignore unit as it doesn't effect my army much, and other targets are softer and more valuable.

Massed fire. Lasguns, Griffons, whatever.... Unit with 2+ cover save? FRF, SRF, [rolls] Make 9 saves. Next unit,[rolls] Make another 6 saves. This is just like killing TH/SS terminators, except you're only T3....

Hellhound- it has an effective ~27" threat range- 12" move+ 12" range+ some of template
Rough riders- depending on deployments
Flamer Veterans in valkyrie or chimera

[Kelanen]

In an army without MC's or Terminators on foot I'd ignore them, and mop them up at the end - that said, they are a scoring troop, almost certainly on an objective, so beginning or end, you need to deal with them. They fold in an assault or to flamers.

[fidesratioque]

Well, 3+ saves as such are nothing to write home about. We have to deal with 3+ saves (or worse: Grey Knights) whenever we play against Space Marines.

[Captain Collius]

Purge them with fire. one flamer will wreck their day

[Crimson Templar]

I picked Redeemer, cause nothing says kill like over kill. In the mean time, Heavy flamer bikes? Which codex are they in?

[ChickenMacNugget]

This is not the typo you're looking for *waves hand*

[Konovalev]

We have to deal with 3+ saves (or worse: Grey Knights) whenever we play against Space Marines.

GK don't have better saves than any other space marine. Or did you mean blood angels and their feel no pain "save"?

I voted assault the pathfinders, though flamers would be better. Not every army has easy access to flamers though (Necrons/Tau), but EVERY army has the ability to kill off a few pathfinders in assault. Even tau crisis suits would make short work of them.

[Fithos]

If by a good stern talking to you mean sterngurd talking with their cover ignoring rounds then I would probably go with that as I would put sternguard in my army anyways as opposed to whirlwinds or a redeemer. Of course I would ignore them until all the more useful things my sternguard could be killing are dead, Otherwise assault is probably the best way to go.

[Dervos]

I've heard some SoB players say they'll tank shock a enemy unit in cover out of cover and then shoot them up.

[Rhaivaen]

LR Eradicator (have yet to field one or two, but want to try them out.) or indeed Hellhound

[ChickenMacNugget]

I do indeed mean sternguard! They look like a lot of fun to play I actually just got some Umbra Ferrox bolters from forgeworld that I plan to use on some sternguard in the future:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhamme...ERROX-X10.html

Tank shocking is a very sneaky tactic, could go horribly wrong, especially if the cover is difficult or dangerous terrain lol

I've never heard of an Eradicator... Some kind of cover ignoring, blast template pattern land raider?

[sgtspiff]

The Pathfinder example is easy. 1 flamer carrying SM would do the job. Shoot and assault.

But tougher stealthed units is harder.
The problem with units that takes care of heavy cover huggers are that they often are good at just removing heavy cover huggers. Really only the flame tanks (hellhound, baal pred, a.s.o.) that is competitive outside flaming terrain. IMHO.

[Tethylis]

As an Eldar player the things that scare me most with rangers/pathfinders are anything with long range cover ignore weapons, so whirlwinds & hellhounds are probably top of that list. Closely followed by fast template weapons, so that would be speeders and flamer toting bikers (although i dont see them much). Mediocre threats are assault units, i can generally see them coming and deploy something to counter them. The most laughable for me personally has to be LR redeemers, if folks want to send a 250pt tank trundling across the battlefield, past fire dragons and ignoring other threats to take on my 100pt objective sitters then i say good luck to them! The two units i fear most though have to be space wolf scouts coming in behind my lines with flamers and assult or snikrot's kommandos (although i dont see these too often either as i am the ork player in my local area but that jus makes me all the more weary cos i know how i'd use them!)

For those saying you can torrent them with FRFSRF guard, i have noticed that fortuned pathfinders can take an ungodly amount of small arms fire, if they are sitting in 2+ cover with re-rolls then dont even bother trying to shoot them with anything that does not ignore cover.

[Bunnahabhain]

For those saying you can torrent them with FRFSRF guard, i have noticed that fortuned pathfinders can take an ungodly amount of small arms fire, if they are sitting in 2+ cover with re-rolls then dont even bother trying to shoot them with anything that does not ignore cover.

I agree 110%, and wouldn't dream of trying to shift a fortuned unit without an assualt or cover ignoring weapon, (or for Guard, the order forcing re-rolling of cover saves, so effectively negating their fortune) unless you HAVE* to. However, I normally see fortune going onto other units, and not the pathfinders

* unit holding an objective, final unit in a KP game where you need to annihilate to win, etc, etc...