wood elf wish list

[thesheriff]

I find the Glade Guard Longbow argument rather stupid. To argue that all models in the wood elf army should have the same bows as the glade guard use, that seems almost insulting to an army that is renowned for having its greatest strength honed in its diversity. An army where each part has a particular role and in which each has adapted its equipent to suit it. For example, glade guard classically have the role of pouring fire into enemy ranks while maintaining a constant flow, causing the enemy to find targeting them from afar difficult. Thus, i believe this profile should be accurate;
*Strength 3
*Armour Piercing
*No Move vs. fire penalties
Possibly coupled with the idea that glade guard should be at -1 to hit from shooting attacks, this would create a mainstay unit that is quite rightly out at the heart of each wood elf army.

Glade riders on the other hand are differant. There role is to ride through the enemy, using shorter range fire to inflict causalties before charging from an unsuspected angle. So, there bow profiles should reflect the need to deal high strength damage, but not nessacarily does there fire have the air-time to gather velocity to penetrate armour (that, or they cant accuratly aim for armour joints and vunerable shots while riding a horse to the same extent as a foot soldier can). However, in a similar way to persian or mongolian short bows, there fire shoudl have higher natural power and reload rate. But, while riding a horse, the ability for a rider, even an elven one, to move seamlessly and fire withoit penalty is a bit far fetched, and thus it is not going to be (as already noted) as proficcient as a footman. So, something like;
*Strength 4
*Quick to fire

The elite (ie waywatchers and some charecters) should have incredible bows, adapted, honed, enchanted and pefected to match there skills. Thus, their bows shoudl hold the power of a glade rider bow, the speed and armour piercing of a guard bow, with the added skills associated with there fluff. Sniper and killing blow spring to mind (with charecters having heroic), however the balance of this when coupled with scout could be tricky.
*S4
*Armour piercing
*Sniper
*Killing Blow

Aside from bows, anouther simple change I would like to see is the improvment of durability for treespirits. I would think an imporved save system woudl be warranted. Dryads being teh weaker of the three, should be equipped with a 6+ ward save (that can be taken against magical attacks). But, they should also have a 5+ armour save. For each consequtive branch of the forest spirit (treekin-treemen) there should be an increase of one in each save (Treekin = 4+/5++ - Treemen = 3+/4++). This staggered approach has always made sense to me, and is a concept that I believe is practical and also balanced.

Finally, as a small change, parry being introduced to eternal guard, possibly at a 5+ value, woudl make sense, and fit the way they fight well.

thesheriff

[Doommasters]

I find the Glade Guard Longbow argument rather stupid. To argue that all models in the wood elf army should have the same bows as the glade guard use, that seems almost insulting to an army that is renowned for having its greatest strength honed in its diversity. - It isn't stupid at all, the first thing any 'elf' in the WE realm would learn is to use a bow. Glade Guard are a 'core' infantry option pretty much like a private, you learn the basic skills before you develop special elite skills. Therefore unless you went the eternal guard route you would likely have the skills of a glad guard warrior if you use a bow as your main weapon at a minimum.

An army where each part has a particular role and in which each has adapted its equipent to suit it. For example, glade guard classically have the role of pouring fire into enemy ranks while maintaining a constant flow, causing the enemy to find targeting them from afar difficult. Thus, i believe this profile should be accurate;
*Strength 3
*Armour Piercing
*No Move vs. fire penalties
Possibly coupled with the idea that glade guard should be at -1 to hit from shooting attacks, this would create a mainstay unit that is quite rightly out at the heart of each wood elf army.

NRather them stay the same but have +1 to hit when within 6" of a forest, it would be hard to see an arrow shot att you if you can't see the direction it is coming from

Glade riders on the other hand are differant. There role is to ride through the enemy, using shorter range fire to inflict causalties before charging from an unsuspected angle. So, there bow profiles should reflect the need to deal high strength damage, but not nessacarily does there fire have the air-time to gather velocity to penetrate armour (that, or they cant accuratly aim for armour joints and vunerable shots while riding a horse to the same extent as a foot soldier can). However, in a similar way to persian or mongolian short bows, there fire shoudl have higher natural power and reload rate. But, while riding a horse, the ability for a rider, even an elven one, to move seamlessly and fire withoit penalty is a bit far fetched, and thus it is not going to be (as already noted) as proficcient as a footman. So, something like;
*Strength 4
*Quick to fire
-1 to hit from shooting also

The elite (ie waywatchers and some charecters) should have incredible bows, adapted, honed, enchanted and pefected to match there skills. Thus, their bows shoudl hold the power of a glade rider bow, the speed and armour piercing of a guard bow, with the added skills associated with there fluff. Sniper and killing blow spring to mind (with charecters having heroic), however the balance of this when coupled with scout could be tricky.
*S4
*Armour piercing
*Sniper
*Killing Blow
-1 To hit when within 6" of a forest, keep them elite with the same points cost

Aside from bows, anouther simple change I would like to see is the improvment of durability for treespirits. I would think an imporved save system woudl be warranted. Dryads being teh weaker of the three, should be equipped with a 6+ ward save (that can be taken against magical attacks). But, they should also have a 5+ armour save. For each consequtive branch of the forest spirit (treekin-treemen) there should be an increase of one in each save (Treekin = 4+/5++ - Treemen = 3+/4++). This staggered approach has always made sense to me, and is a concept that I believe is practical and also balanced.

All forest spirit should have regen not ward saves, keep with the theme of the army and fluff......trees burn and hate fire makes sense. To cover fire being a massive threat that can root the army, just an a spell into Athel Loren that provides protection to fire.......builds on fluff and keeps the army unique

Finally, as a small change, parry being introduced to eternal guard, possibly at a 5+ value, woudl make sense, and fit the way they fight well. - Eternal guard need a total rework, ranked up elves in WE army just does not feel right

thesheriff

Overall there needs to be tactical depth in the WE shooting without having to bring in war machines, forest spirits need regen not ward saves for fluff, movement needs to continue to be a tactical advantage and forest should play a bigger role in deployment and during the game.

There also needs to be a bigger emphasis and build variety around machine gun and sniper lords they are what make WE combat heroes unique and fun. We don't need stone throwers and cannons or combat lords than can kill whole ranks of troops......we want stealthy assassins and long range sniper lords to keep us unique. Leave the heavy hitting to Tree Spirits please. While I am on it spell weavers and singers should be proficient with bows also, don't see why they couldn't be effective long range archers given they die to a wet rag in close combat.

I dream of the day I can snipe down those OP chaos sorcerers on disk before they wreak havoc on half my army, or being able to pick of banners and bsb's so you have a chance to actually break units rather than just getting ground down.

Oh to dream of the potential for the WE army, please stick to the fluff whoever writes the books.

[bluemage]

I'm not sure why everyone wants forest spirits to regen instead of getting a ward. The ward save makes sense, regen not so much, I mean live trees and green wood is rather hard to burn.

I terms of new units I hope they continue what they did with the 6th ed book and include some horrifying monsters in the wood elf book. Think along the lines of Grim's fairy tales. One of the things I like best about wood elf fluff is that they aren't a good army, and they war with the good races as often as the evil ones. I was think that a cool new monster would have something like the stats or a treekin, but be ethereal and steal souls from enemies which could power some special abilities. I'd like WE elves to keep a lot of their malevolent elements like dycha.

[Charistoph]

I'm not sure why everyone wants forest spirits to regen instead of getting a ward. The ward save makes sense, regen not so much, I mean live trees and green wood is rather hard to burn.

Even though they already have Flammable? Giving them Regen allows one to swap 2 rules for one. Regen doesn't make sense for some Forest Sprits, though, like the Wild Riders, but hey, we don't know everything about them, either.

I terms of new units I hope they continue what they did with the 6th ed book and include some horrifying monsters in the wood elf book. Think along the lines of Grim's fairy tales. One of the things I like best about wood elf fluff is that they aren't a good army, and they war with the good races as often as the evil ones. I was think that a cool new monster would have something like the stats or a treekin, but be ethereal and steal souls from enemies which could power some special abilities. I'd like WE elves to keep a lot of their malevolent elements like dycha.

That would be cool, like a Jabberwocky (though, that might be seen in the Jabberslythe) or a Forest Drake.

[Balerion]

I'm on board with the Ethereal suggestions on the previous page, but I think that Wild Riders should be the Ethereal component to our army. They desperately need something to make them cooler, and better. There are a a few different ways they could do it;

1) they're straight-up Ethereal (most expensive version; they function as a standard Ethereal unit)

2) whenever they complete a charge they are considered Ethereal until the start of their next turn (next most expensive version; they become a glass hammer that tries to win a combat quickly by stacking the CR in their favour)

3) they are Ethereal so long as they are not engaged in close combat (least expensive version; their conditional ethereality improves mobility and protects them from missile fire)

Another thing I would love to see are Naiads. Forests don't exist without water. These could serve as the inevitable Monstrous Infantry choice in the new book. They could also be a scary and borderline malevolent monsterlike choice, as a previous poster wanted to see.

Eternal guard need a total rework, ranked up elves in WE army just does not feel right

Oh to dream of the potential for the WE army, please stick to the fluff whoever writes the books.

Hmmm, I hope this doesn't sound too rude, but the ironic juxtapositioning of those comments makes me think that you might not appreciate the implications of the fluff yourself.

We had a short, but good, discussion about the incorrect outlook some people have on WE fluff in this recent thread. TL;DR version = Wood Elves DO and MUST have ranked infantry, otherwise their presence in the Warhammer world does not make any sense whatsoever.

Berserker Bears certainly live up to the rule-of-cool, but you're not going to be defending your meadow pasture heartland from an incursion of hardened Dwarf mercantilist-plunderers with them.

[Doommasters]

I'm on board with the Ethereal suggestions on the previous page, but I think that Wild Riders should be the Ethereal component to our army. They desperately need something to make them cooler, and better. There are a a few different ways they could do it;

1) they're straight-up Ethereal (most expensive version; they function as a standard Ethereal unit)

2) whenever they complete a charge they are considered Ethereal until the start of their next turn (next most expensive version; they become a glass hammer that tries to win a combat quickly by stacking the CR in their favour)

3) they are Ethereal so long as they are not engaged in close combat (least expensive version; their conditional ethereality improves mobility and protects them from missile fire)

Another thing I would love to see are Naiads. Forests don't exist without water. These could serve as the inevitable Monstrous Infantry choice in the new book. They could also be a scary and borderline malevolent monsterlike choice, as a previous poster wanted to see.


Hmmm, I hope this doesn't sound too rude, but the ironic juxtapositioning of those comments makes me think that you might not appreciate the implications of the fluff yourself.

We had a short, but good, discussion about the incorrect outlook some people have on WE fluff in this recent thread. TL;DR version = Wood Elves DO and MUST have ranked infantry, otherwise their presence in the Warhammer world does not make any sense whatsoever.

Berserker Bears certainly live up to the rule-of-cool, but you're not going to be defending your meadow pasture heartland from an incursion of hardened Dwarf mercantilist-plunderers with them.

Fair points I will give the thread a read cheers for that

[Athlan na Dyr]

1. Make us have a scary shooting phase, and make waywatchers one of the few infantry units that can do serious damage from a range.
2. Buff our shooting phase
3. Buff our shooting phase again
4. Buff our shooting phase just to be sure.

I didn't pick high elves for melee or dark elves for magic, I picked Wood Elves for bows.

One thing that may work for Dryads IF they keep Skirmish would be that they and the unit they are in combat with always count as being in a forest. This would setup a nasty synergy with the 'Dancers as a combined punch approach.

Just putting it out there, but you need an opponent to play against
to HurrDurr: Facing a ridiculous shooting phase is about as fun to verse as a trip to the dentist. Please don't make Wood Elves a gunline, they deserve better
to Charistoph: I know what you intend for this to do (make the combat elements work), but it suffers from making Dryads an auto-include, is easily counterable by a 35 point magic item and goes against core rules. Something needs to be done for sure, but there are more elegant and simple solutions.

Threadomancy alert - I know it has been a while but I thought writing in this thread would be better than starting up another one.
So, I was thinking of a possible new unit type for the wood elves.

A recent idea that popped into my head was another monster option. I was thinking along the lines of GW's recent trend for big centrepieces, either monsters or warmachines, some of which provide unit buffs.
So, the idea that came to mind was an ethereal forest spirit monster that provides unit buffs. If you have seen Princess Mononoke then you'll have a clearer idea of what I'm picturing. A stag-like spirit that embodies the forest of athel loren and the forces of life an death. Potential buffs could be regeneration and regrowth (like the spells from the lore of life) to a unit within 6" (maybe 12" depending on points cost etc), or, to provide the buff to multiple units/increase the potency of the buff, it could expend one of its own wounds (of which I imagined it having 4 or 5). This could be used at the end of the movement phase. However, the creature would first have to (ie it can't choose whether to use the power or not, its powers are constantly in effect) roll a D6 to see if it grants life or death. On the roll of a 1, it deals D3 wounds, no saves allowed on any unit (friend or foe) within 6", possibly losing a wound itself. Thoughts?

PS. An already popular idea is Stag Riders (forest spirits like wild riders). As someone here said, making them rare might be a good idea as I can't imagine them being very common, although I wouldn't be averse to having them as a special choice. Wouldn't mind a rare forest dragon choice either.

Good Threodomancy. Must admit that ethereal would fit quite well with the Wood Elves. Currently there is only one army that uses this (unless I've missed something?) which seems a bit odd for a USR.

I find the Glade Guard Longbow argument rather stupid. To argue that all models in the wood elf army should have the same bows as the glade guard use, that seems almost insulting to an army that is renowned for having its greatest strength honed in its diversity. An army where each part has a particular role and in which each has adapted its equipent to suit it. For example, glade guard classically have the role of pouring fire into enemy ranks while maintaining a constant flow, causing the enemy to find targeting them from afar difficult. Thus, i believe this profile should be accurate;
*Strength 3
*Armour Piercing
*No Move vs. fire penalties
Possibly coupled with the idea that glade guard should be at -1 to hit from shooting attacks, this would create a mainstay unit that is quite rightly out at the heart of each wood elf army.

Glade riders on the other hand are differant. There role is to ride through the enemy, using shorter range fire to inflict causalties before charging from an unsuspected angle. So, there bow profiles should reflect the need to deal high strength damage, but not nessacarily does there fire have the air-time to gather velocity to penetrate armour (that, or they cant accuratly aim for armour joints and vunerable shots while riding a horse to the same extent as a foot soldier can). However, in a similar way to persian or mongolian short bows, there fire shoudl have higher natural power and reload rate. But, while riding a horse, the ability for a rider, even an elven one, to move seamlessly and fire withoit penalty is a bit far fetched, and thus it is not going to be (as already noted) as proficcient as a footman. So, something like;
*Strength 4
*Quick to fire

The elite (ie waywatchers and some charecters) should have incredible bows, adapted, honed, enchanted and pefected to match there skills. Thus, their bows shoudl hold the power of a glade rider bow, the speed and armour piercing of a guard bow, with the added skills associated with there fluff. Sniper and killing blow spring to mind (with charecters having heroic), however the balance of this when coupled with scout could be tricky.
*S4
*Armour piercing
*Sniper
*Killing Blow

Aside from bows, anouther simple change I would like to see is the improvment of durability for treespirits. I would think an imporved save system woudl be warranted. Dryads being teh weaker of the three, should be equipped with a 6+ ward save (that can be taken against magical attacks). But, they should also have a 5+ armour save. For each consequtive branch of the forest spirit (treekin-treemen) there should be an increase of one in each save (Treekin = 4+/5++ - Treemen = 3+/4++). This staggered approach has always made sense to me, and is a concept that I believe is practical and also balanced.

Finally, as a small change, parry being introduced to eternal guard, possibly at a 5+ value, woudl make sense, and fit the way they fight well.

thesheriff

On the bows, splitting them so much just seems to be rules for the sake of them. Following the KISS principle, applying Glade Guard Longbows wholesale is an easier approach to buffing the shooting of some lackluster units.
I do like the increment of the Tree Spirit saves though.

Overall there needs to be tactical depth in the WE shooting without having to bring in war machines, forest spirits need regen not ward saves for fluff, movement needs to continue to be a tactical advantage and forest should play a bigger role in deployment and during the game.

There also needs to be a bigger emphasis and build variety around machine gun and sniper lords they are what make WE combat heroes unique and fun. We don't need stone throwers and cannons or combat lords than can kill whole ranks of troops......we want stealthy assassins and long range sniper lords to keep us unique. Leave the heavy hitting to Tree Spirits please. While I am on it spell weavers and singers should be proficient with bows also, don't see why they couldn't be effective long range archers given they die to a wet rag in close combat.

I dream of the day I can snipe down those OP chaos sorcerers on disk before they wreak havoc on half my army, or being able to pick of banners and bsb's so you have a chance to actually break units rather than just getting ground down.

Oh to dream of the potential for the WE army, please stick to the fluff whoever writes the books.

Dislike the 'regen' idea. Trees don't mystically heal quickly (which is what regen represents) so it doesn't really fit. They are however protected by a demon of Athel Loren (or are a literal manifestation in the case of dryads). As such a Ward Save makes far more sense.

I also dislike the idea that elves can't support the Forest Spirits in combat The whole point and purpose of the Wood Elves is that the two support each other wholesale, rather than the elves merely cheering the Forest Spirits on and shooting a bit. You seem to be advocating a purely shooting elven component and to me this screams 'gunline'. As I said earlier, Wood Elves deserve better.

And finally, good luck finding a Vampire opponent if your entire army can pick out models in shooting. That said, I'll contradict myself and agree that Waywatchers could well use the Sniper special rule to provide a good character threat.

For my own wishlist, to me there are a few things that define the Wood Elf Army:
> Proficiency with Bows
> Skirmisher heavy force
> Symbiotic relation with Forest Spirits
> Utilises Terrain

So, trying to incorporate these whilst maintaining a reasonably balanced force, here are a few changes:
> Woodland Fighters: Units with this special rule may choose whether to be deployed in skirmish or regular formation. During the game, the unit may change between the two formations through a reform unless it is engaged in close combat. Note that the unit may combine a regular reform with this special one.
intended to only be given to Dryads, Glade Guard and Glade Riders
+Point: maintains skirmisher use whilst creating a good combat unit with ranks in the core section. Also provides Glade Guard/ Riders with some additional ranged protection

> Woodland Dwellers (army special rule): All units have the Forest Strider special rule and ignore the effects of Mysterious Forests. Furthermore, any unit partially within a Forest counts as Stubborn.
+Point: Reinforces how Wood Elves are at home in a wood and increases the utility they can gain from one. (i.e. increases their utilisation of terrain)

> Asrai Archery (another army special rule): Wood Elves do not suffer penalties from moving and shooting. Furthermore, they may trace line of sight through friendly skirmishers, although this counts as soft cover for the target.
+Point: encourages use of skirmishers to cover the squishy archers.

Other than that, a few points changes, Glade Guard longbows as standard, removal of unit caps, thesheriff's tree spirit increment saves, sniping waywatchers, new units, the free forest being mysterious and forests being able to be moved onto the enemy via tree-singing.

[HurrDurr]

hope im not double posting, issues with browser, anyways.

@athlan, never said anything about a gunline, I just think elf stats with no penalties for movement and str 4 at short range shouldnt sum up the best archers in the world, especially when its supposed to be a shooty army. (and dont even try to tell me the the only army in the game with a selection of magic bows and arrows like ours is not a shooty army)

There are always ways to balance things and make them fun, one element of the wood elves I like is that we carry so few wounds compared to other armies, with average rolls a fireball can do damage but wont really destroy an army/unit. With woodelves there is almost nothing that cant do substantial damage, even str 3 shooting. Just trying to give examples, the more absurdly killy and evasive Wood Elves become, the more they should be punished when they are caught. At least that's how I see it.

[Urgat]

Another thing I would love to see are Naiads. Forests don't exist without water. These could serve as the inevitable Monstrous Infantry choice in the new book. They could also be a scary and borderline malevolent monsterlike choice, as a previous poster wanted to see.

Two points: WE already have a monstrous infantry, I'm not sure they need two (and aren't most of the forest spirits scary and borderline malevolent already?). And I'd, for one, would love to see waterey stuff appear in the Bretonnian book. The Brets worship the Lady of the Lake (Lake, water, you get it), and, you're right, forests can't live w/o water. Brets and WE having that somewhat awkward relationship, it illustrates that just fine. Now you make the Lady of the Lake the "water" equivalent of the "forest" spirit of Loren, we get a nice dichotomy. If there's somewhat of an understanding between the two, plus the fact that the Lady uses an elf as her Enchantress, that can explain why the two people are somewhat urged to cooperate, if somewhat unwillingly. So you get waterey looking monstrous cavalry (the Lady shapes them in the form of ghostly grail knights, maybe they are grail knights spirits, why not?), and hop. I think the water theme would work better with the brets than with the WE, at any rate.

[Engineer]

Just two quick thoughts.

To help Wood Elves be more deadly with out unbalancing combat res how about letting a unit in CC shoot into the combat it is in. Think of all the times you have seen the archer character shooting people while in the middle of a large combat. This would allow them to whittle down units but the casualties would not be counted towards combat res.

In a similar vein I think the Wardancers need the entire unit to fight not just the first rank. I am not sure how to word the rule but the idea that since the Wardancers are supposed to be jumping into the middle of the unit they are attacking all the dancers fight. This would also mean that an equal number of rank and file from the other side would fight back. So instead of front rank vs front rank each wardancer gets paired off with a rank and file and they take shot at each other. This would remove supporting attacks and step up from both sides. Not sure how this would interact with spear units.

[Antipathy]

Instead of buffing the Wood Elves to compete in this edition, they seem to be a "counter", or a "water" style army, one which is able to adapt and react to the enemy, which perfectly suits their fluff as ones which are happy to live their lives while the world goes to ratshat around them. Particularly as the forest is a grand leveller, allowing them to fight in familiar territory while the enemy are struggling to counter.

As such, identify the typical strengths of the game - big blocks of infantry, monstrous cavalry, war machines, impact hits, and magic, and find a way of neutralising it. It's a completely new way of looking at the armies - instead of buffing the Wood Elves to cope with what others can throw at them in a full on fight (such as Mournfangs/Demigryphs), create nerfs to counter their effectiveness.

Removing ability to charge, such as rolling an additional dice to charge with, and taking away the highest, increased number of ambushers/scouts/vanguards, ability to remove enemies augment's, etc.

And hopefully make Orion useable in 2K games.

[theunwantedbeing]

In a similar vein I think the Wardancers need the entire unit to fight not just the first rank. I am not sure how to word the rule but the idea that since the Wardancers are supposed to be jumping into the middle of the unit they are attacking all the dancers fight. This would also mean that an equal number of rank and file from the other side would fight back. So instead of front rank vs front rank each wardancer gets paired off with a rank and file and they take shot at each other. This would remove supporting attacks and step up from both sides. Not sure how this would interact with spear units.

A very simple solution to this is to give them the Monsterous Support special rule in some way shape or form.
This then allows them to fight with 3 supporting attacks rather than just one, making them a far more deadly unit immediately without the need for any fantastic or unusual special rules that don't exist at the moment.

Their dances would be what add the additional flavour.
eg.
Devastating charge, 4+ ward save, killing blow, whatever

They would still however be low model count weedy elves who wear no armour and generally die off incredibly quickly to a stiff breeze.

[Athlan na Dyr]

hope im not double posting, issues with browser, anyways.

@athlan, never said anything about a gunline, I just think elf stats with no penalties for movement and str 4 at short range shouldnt sum up the best archers in the world, especially when its supposed to be a shooty army. (and dont even try to tell me the the only army in the game with a selection of magic bows and arrows like ours is not a shooty army)

There are always ways to balance things and make them fun, one element of the wood elves I like is that we carry so few wounds compared to other armies, with average rolls a fireball can do damage but wont really destroy an army/unit. With woodelves there is almost nothing that cant do substantial damage, even str 3 shooting. Just trying to give examples, the more absurdly killy and evasive Wood Elves become, the more they should be punished when they are caught. At least that's how I see it.

Ah, fair enough, its just the impression I was getting to your earlier post. I agree that they should be very good at shooting and, perhaps more importantly, being mobile and shooting. That was one of the reasons for the "woodland fighters" rule I posted above (effectively the unit can switch between skirmish and normal formation), so that the units with this rule could both march and fire. This to me suited them better as I don't see Wood Elves as a static army.

@ Engineer: With your first point, are you advocating to replace their combat phase with a shooting phase into combat, or are you advocating letting them shoot into their own combat and then fight? Either way, that only assists units that shouldn't really be in combat anyway, and by comparison nerfs the non bow elements of the army. Balance should be the name of the game rather than all bows, all the time.
I do like your second point, though theunwantedbeing's solution of monstrous support does seem more elegant. Would also help wardancers be a reasonable counter to low volume, high quality enemies (i.e. Great Weapon Elites).

@ Antipathy: I'd rather have Wood Elves use 8th edition than their own wierd hodge-podge of rules. What you seem to be advocating is replacing core mechanics, and whilst I'm just of guilty of doing the same, these need to be small changes to the Wood Elf army (if indeed any) rather than major ones that affect the enemy. Besides, no one is asking for pseudo mournfangs that can charge into the enemy and take on their best mano-a-mano. Wood Elves will remain an army that requires multiple units to support each other to deal with the enemy.

[Charistoph]

to Charistoph: I know what you intend for this to do (make the combat elements work), but it suffers from making Dryads an auto-include, is easily counterable by a 35 point magic item and goes against core rules. Something needs to be done for sure, but there are more elegant and simple solutions.

Maybe. It would backfire against other Skirmishers, though. Maybe if the entire combat they are involved in counts as being in a forest it would only work if all of your non-Monsters were Skirmishers. It would be dangerous for the Cavalry, Guards, and Treekin to get involved in that fight, unless they were to small to Rank already, which leaves them open to being turned to kindling.

Any way, it's brainstorming using the mechanics IN THE GAME to provide some Unique Special Rules for the unit to make them.

[Balerion]

Two points: WE already have a monstrous infantry, I'm not sure they need two (and aren't most of the forest spirits scary and borderline malevolent already?).

Well, there's going to need to be an alternate build for the plastic Treekin kit, so if not Naiads, then what?

[Charistoph]

Well, there's going to need to be an alternate build for the plastic Treekin kit, so if not Naiads, then what?

Why? Ogres aren't. Minotaurs aren't. Trolls aren't, heck, there are 3 kits of those now (though only one plastic). And that's the current plastic Monstrous Infantry.

[Balerion]

And that's the current plastic Monstrous Infantry.

You actually forgot the most recent, which was Vargheists/Crypt Horrors.

Anyway, that was mostly a joke, although something in the Wood Elf release (if there ever is one) is bound to be multipurpose. My money would be on an Eternal Guard/Something Else kit, though.

[NTJ2010]

Well this is easy:
Adjust the point costs of everything, as with any update.
New models (I assume we are referring to rules so I'll stop there on that).
Consider additional lores: Beasts, Life and Athel Loren (or whatever it becomes) are fine, consider Heavens maybe or Light (not for balance issues but seems somewhat appropriate but easily could do without).
Easier ways to add some survivability for characters (even though they already have some degrees of this, think Dark Eldar character saves)
Keep some form of either the Sprites or the Kindreds (I'd be happy with either), definitely keep magic bows (not a common type of magic weapon but definitely appropriate).
Some universal rule to at least make them feel elfy (maybe lower their ballistic skill some but give them rerolls to hit in shooting since the other elves have rerolls in combat).

Dryads: remove the lost save to magical attacks...in fact remove that everywhere. No sense in punishing them for playing armies like Daemons who have it out the wazoo.
Either add a new or alter the Eternal Guard (or warriors forget the name) so they have some better rank and file fighters (or give them a special rule to mess with steadfast or step up since it's basically throwing skirmishers at a brick wall at this point).
Go crazy with mounts and monsters, you have a whole forest to use. Additionally could use some monstrous cavalry, those are usually fun (maybe stag cavalry)
Make them less reliant on terrain and/or let them not get clobbered by blood forests (at least the Dryads, Treekin and Tree Men...that's rather silly). Obviously they should retain stuff like wood strider though.

[cyberspite]

I love these threads, there's always a lot of good ideas, there's so many cool things that could be done with wood elves, I just don't understand why GW doesn't seem to share the same enthusiasm.

My one wish from a new wood elf book would be just to make the elf combat units viable. The tree spirits (barring wild riders) and glade guard are pretty much ok, but all the w's - I'm looking at you waywatchers, wardancers, warhawks and wild riders - are in serious need of some love.

All they need is just to be better, I don't want to see just points reductions as these are all specialist elite units, in a specialist elite army. Instead just make them actually worth their points, for example I would quite like to see the following:

Waywatchers to gain either sniper or multi shot, possibly both but you have to choose which to use at the start of the turn, along with glade guard longbows.

Wardancers need a constant ward / dodge / tattoo save and a specialist formation rule to allow all models in the unit to fight with their full attacks would make them more dangerous, would need a unit cap though.

Warhawk riders are a tricky one, there's not a lot of room for improvement without making the warhawk better than an eagle, which they shouldn't be, so I think a points drop might be necessary here. An arboreal predators rule to let them move through forests without penalty and possibly asf or armour piercing talons would help though. Warhawk mounts for characters so they (or eagle nobles) can join units is also needed.

Wild riders need a serious buff to their damage potential, either by changing them to monstrous cavalry and give them stags with impact hits, or keep them as fast cav and give the riders 2 attacks basic plus maybe devastating charge. They should remain a glass cannon but be a force of nature when they hit something. Ethereal, or partly ethereal is an interesting idea too though.

I think glade riders would be ok with just glade guard longbows, with their speed to get in close those strength 4 shots would be pretty annoying.

Eternal guard need either a points drop and moved to core to give the option for a cheaper rank and file unit, or give them strength 4, a parry save and permanent stubborn, probably with a slight points increase, to make them proper elites.

A new lore of athel loren would be nice, preferably with a focus on movement buffs / debuffs and terrain, although I suspect the free forest will be gone from the next book, if it remains it needs to worthwhile, with the ability to grow new forests and move them over enemies.

The kindred rules need a little streamlining, and I would also like to see additions that can effect army composition, such as a highborn from a wardancer kindred makes wardancers core, same with warhawks and wild riders etc. Unlikely to happen but would be fun for themed armies.

And lastly, beastmasters. Please, please, please can we have beastmasters back. Concept-wise i could see this working similar to the dark eldar beastmasters, with the option to choose from a selection of different beasts with different battlefield roles. This may have to replace the alter kindred character though.

All in all I think large ranked-up units would still be a difficult proposition for the army, but with more dangerous elf combat units, tough tree spirits, good old glade guard shooting and maybe a couple new things wood elves would have plenty of viable options to take them on without losing their hit and run style, you would just have to pick your fights and line-up multiple charges, which is how wood elves should work anyway.

[amakiir]

First, I want to admit that I haven't read anything in this thread so far other than the OP, so I'm sorry if this has been said.

A: I agree with the comment about the Glade Guard Bow. All bows in wood elves should be S4 at short range.
B: Get rid of the forest spirit rule. It is pointless and needlessly complicated.
C: Give Warhawk Riders S3 T4 W3 3A, Glade Guard Bow, Spear (+1 S for all 3 attacks on charge), 5+ armor save (light armor + scaly skin) I would say 35 points would be fair.
D: Make the Lore not TERRIBLE, and all mages should have Life + Beasts as well.
E: Make Glade Riders medium cavalry again. Two choices: light cavalry (spear + bow, fast cavalry) and medium cavalry (spear, light armor, shield, vanguard). light cavalry 24 points, medium cavalry 20 points.
F: Make Unicorns mount upgrades, NOT a monster. Just a horse with 2A, S4, +2 strength on charge. That is it. Simple.
G: Wardancers 15 points each, if not less. Nerf as needed to make this happen, keeping their ward save.

These are really all I want to see, in order.

EDIT:

I put a bit more thought on the subject. A few things I missed:

1: Let characters on great eagles join units of warhawk riders.
2: Simplify rules. Example A, Wardancers: Same stats; 6+ ward; MR(1); immune to psychology (or whatever they call it now, I forget); Skirmish; at beginning of each round of combat, choose one of the following: +2S, +2A. No fancy weapon rules. No unnecessary frills. PS, 12 points each, please?
3: Are great eagles really necessary? Just make warhawk riders worth taking. Seriously, that is all you need to do. Wood Elves don't need characters on birds + normal guys on birds + REALLY BIG BIRDS. It reminds me of Xzibit "Yo Dawg, I heard you like birds so I put dudes on your birds so you can ride while you fly."
4: Price drop across the board. Obvious, but still needs to be said. GG 10, GR 20 (if not less, really 16 would be good), EG 8 (even if you need to drop WS to 4), Dryads 10 (no forest spirit, 5+ armor, no skirmish), WD 12, WH 30-35, WR 22, TK 45 (no Forest Spirit), WW 15, TM 220 (no forest spirit), no GE.

Great Stags and Unicorns should be able to join any cavalry unit. (and not have to pay fricking points for the luxury of paying points to ride the thing. get rid of the Stag Tax, FFS).
Unicorns should be simple upgrades with 4S, 2A, +2S on charge for 30 points. No MR, no multiple wounds.
Characters on Great Eagles should be able to join any Warhawk Unit.
Spellsinger and Spellweaver need to be able to pick life and beasts.
Bladeweaver should be a character choice again and be the combat tank hero for wood elves. (+2S or +2A, even when carrying magic weapons, at beginning of each combat phase).

I really don't think anything I stated here would be broken. Maybe I'm taking a bit too extreme, I don't think so but maybe. Honestly I feel like GW just nerfed way too much for wood elves for absolutely no reason. Same as they did with VC, which they have now undone with their new book.

Also, if you didn't catch on, I think the only skirmish units in the army should be warhawk riders, waywatchers, and wardancers. Everything else normal rank and file.