teclis at 2000 points-what to do

[madival]

I have an opponent fielding teclis, 40 sword masters in horde with bsb , 20 seaguard and 25 seaguard with noble that makes all the 25 guys attacks magical. I am only worried about teclis as vampire counts. I am fielding a 30 man GG unit banner of barrows , 2x30 zombies, 30 skeletons, 2x5 dire wolves, hemmler, o2 necro with rod of flaming death, 2x5 hex wraiths and a black coach. What should I do ?

[Malorian]

Just send a unit into him and kill him. The dude is toughness 2 and goes down to a stiff breeze. This may be the one time I like the black coach...

You may lose a unit doing it but it's worth it.

[Don Zeko]

Just make sure you aren't using a character than can be challenged out or some thing that relies upon impact hits. So long as you can direct attacks and live long enough to take your swings, Teclis should go down easily.

[IcedCrow]

I'm also a fan of dropping every cannonball and mortar shot and sniper shot at him. He's bound to fail a look out sir roll when you use weight of numbers. I'm not sure of your army but if you have access to any of the above, let er rip.

[Frankly]

Set up a some magic defence, look at all the anti magic items and get a few that either hurt him or shut down a spell or two.

Pump your wights up to 40 and run them straight at his unit.

Bring along a consistant magic phase with any one or all of BP, stone, engine, power scroll, channelling spam, etc. etc.

[Graxy]

Considering your using vamps, I would run a unit of wraiths into him and laugh. Let out a laugh that can be heard from the heavens. Laugh until he feels so demeaned that he stretches his hand across the table and surrenders (NOTE: This has varied results and most likely won't end exactly as I have said)

Since he doesn't have the magic attacks item on the swordsmasters, they can do literally nothing to you (assuming that the BSB doesn't have a magic weapon). Round 1 of combat, kill teclis. Now the magic war is yours. If he does carry a magic weapon on his BSB, then he'll probably kill about a wraith a turn. In this case, after he's wiped the unit out (hopefully with you taking a wound off of the BSB, or even killing him and actually dying to crumbling) avoid the unit as best asd you can for the rest of the game. Killing teclis sets you up to keep enough of a VP lead to win the game.

[BigbyWolf]

One of my clubs has come up with a novel way of dealing with Teclis.

If anyone ends up playing against someone using Teclis, they themselves get a free Teclis to use for the game. We even have a club Teclis model for people to use should the situation arise.

Should the club Teclis already be in use and someone else puts out a Teclis army, they must then give their Teclis to the opposing army, and play the game without Teclis, and the opposing army uses that Teclis as a bonus Teclis.

Any further people trying to use Teclis on the same night are forced to sit in the corner holding up a sign with "I must learn to play tactically..." written on it.

They also aren't allowed any of the club donuts.

Most people tend to stop bringing him unless they have specifically agreed to use him with their prospective opponents the previous week.

[warplock]

I wouldnt play against him at 2000 points. Ask the opponent to desist.

[Graxy]

One of my clubs has come up with a novel way of dealing with Teclis.

If anyone ends up playing against someone using Teclis, they themselves get a free Teclis to use for the game. We even have a club Teclis model for people to use should the situation arise.

Should the club Teclis already be in use and someone else puts out a Teclis army, they must then give their Teclis to the opposing army, and play the game without Teclis, and the opposing army uses that Teclis as a bonus Teclis.

Any further people trying to use Teclis on the same night are forced to sit in the corner holding up a sign with "I must learn to play tactically..." written on it.

Thats possibly the greatest thing I've ever heard.

[Morkash]

One of my clubs has come up with a novel way of dealing with Teclis.

If anyone ends up playing against someone using Teclis, they themselves get a free Teclis to use for the game. We even have a club Teclis model for people to use should the situation arise.

Should the club Teclis already be in use and someone else puts out a Teclis army, they must then give their Teclis to the opposing army, and play the game without Teclis, and the opposing army uses that Teclis as a bonus Teclis.

Any further people trying to use Teclis on the same night are forced to sit in the corner holding up a sign with "I must learn to play tactically..." written on it.

They also aren't allowed any of the club donuts.

Most people tend to stop bringing him unless they have specifically agreed to use him with their prospective opponents the previous week.

I fully approve of this. Fantastic!

[madival]

Teclis can't be that rediculous. I have the means to punch his face off. It's his first use of him and he can only spam so much. Also, we do friendly games. The suggested not playing / get a free teclis is not an option and kind of dickish.

[Graxy]

Teclis can't be that rediculous. I have the means to punch his face off. It's his first use of him and he can only spam so much. Also, we do friendly games. The suggested not playing / get a free teclis is not an option and kind of dickish.

I'm going to attempt to explain why teclis is so broken. Lets just talk about his points cost. Start of with a basic level 4 archmage. Thats 260. Now give him the book of hoeth. Thats 360. Now lets give him the built in banner of sorcery. Now he's 410. Now lets duplicate the effects of the banner but with dispel dice (lets keep this as 50 for simplicity). That's 460. Now lets give him a pimped out staff of solidity (again, calling this 50 for simplicity). Now he's 510. Now lets give him a destroyer scroll (basic 50). Now he's 560. Let's assume that the loremaster rule is equal to 3 silver wands. Now he's 590. Take away his stat decreases. Let's say 20 since he won't be using them. Now he's 570. Now his sword (I'm calling it 30, since I think it gives him pretty good coverage). Now he's 600. In this 1 model, which by this calculation has been undercharged by about 125pts, he's basically stacked 4 arcane items (3 of 1 so 6 if you want to count that) 2 magic banners (counting the D3 dispel dice as 1), 1 of which can be taken in duplicate now, better combat prowess than other Lvl 4s in the army, and an Item (book of hoeth) that a good number of people consider to be OP, as well as the fact that this undercharging allows him to be taken in 2000 point games.

People feel free to add to this, but I think that this is pretty fair and accurate.

[madival]

Can you feedback scroll him to death ?

[Graxy]

Not really since he irrisistables on any double, and even if he 6 dices a spell and doesnt get a double, on average,, you're only getting 2 wounds on him, leaving him with 1. 1 is better than 3, yes, but he's going to die in 1 round of combat anyway, so he's basically as effective as ever.

[calnen]

Graxy pretty much summed it up. Unless it's an agreed competitive game (conga lines etc included), then a gent just wouldn't take him. The rules for him are clearly not as intended.

That aside, as others have said, just try and hit him with *anything* and he should go down. Death magic could work - he's not *that* good at dispelling. Feedback scroll might help a bit. Against the HE list you put up, I'd go for very heavy cavalry, to shrug off the bowfire and destroy the seaguard units. Hold up / redirect the swordmaster horde with throwaway ethereals - only consider engaging them if you have both flanks or something.

[madival]

How exactly does the feedback work ? If he casts and rolls 3 5's casting, would that be those 5+'s needed for the scroll or do you reroll the amount of power dice he used ?

[BigbyWolf]

The suggested not playing / get a free teclis is not an option and kind of dickish.

Well, I was generalising, really the only piece of our rule that would apply to your situation is this part:

unless they have specifically agreed to use him with their prospective opponents the previous week.

But, as others have said, he is pretty ridiculous. It's mainly that he is so much more effective than a normal level 4. Hit him, and he dies easily, but getting close enough to hit him is the hard part, and usually fails. That being said, if you do kill him, it is very satisfying. The big issue is that playing against him is rarely fun.

[Graxy]

Basically, if you kill him, you win the game since the whole army crumbles around his loss, or you just avoid the rest of the army and win off of the VPs that he's given you. Killing him, however, is a b****. Pretty much your only option is to kill him with magic (harder becase of the D3 extra dice as well as them getting +5 to dispel), or by sniping him with shooting. *sigh* I guess I'll start buying hochland long rifles again

[warplock]

Teclis can't be that rediculous.

I know, as you said, that not playing against him is not an option etc, and I know it's just a game, but just for the record: he IS that ridiculous, and then some.
Regarding your feedback scroll question, the 5s he rolled to cast the spell are not counted - you take however many dice he rolled to caste spell, reroll them, and any 5+ wounds him. Not much chance of killing him as he has 3 wounds.
I don't have much in the way of advice for fighting him, I just want to point out that the one positive about him is that he is so far beyond fair, that if you lose to an army containing him, you can pretty much console yourself with the fact that it was Teclis, and not the opposing player, who beat you. Imagine if Archaon cost 400 points - Teclis might even be more broken than that. At least Archaon has to actually get to you before he kills you.

[madival]

Sooooo.... Charged teclis alone because he was jumping in between units to keep safe. Got charged by hex wraiths who wrecked everything they touched. They stayed out of los till turn before he charged and got a bad magic phase. Teclis died to a ghost horse foot to the face.