Halberd +2 Initiative?

[khaosmarines]

Should, (fluff wise) a Grey Knight halberd give +2 Initiative? I could see maybe when charged or charging, but i think +2 I is a bit much once in combat as their isn't the room the keep the enemy at a length where they can make full advantage of it's length.

So +2 I Yes or NO

From a completely fluffy point of view is +2 I justifiable?

[Geep]

I went with No. A halberd can work as a spear (where an initiative boost in the first combat round may make some sense), but that's really not the main way a halberd is used.

[Askari]

No. Most enemies they fight have guns, which has better range than even the Halberd. Seeing as close combat also is supposed to represent close quarters shooting also, well...

[Shamana]

No, that was BS.

[Szalik]

My vote went for No. Maybe for the first round of combat but all the time, no.

[madden]

I'd say yes, just look up vids of warriors with quarter staffs and see how fast they can be used, they also have the ability to block with one end then smack with the other, in cc I'd rather have a staff/halberd than a sword more defence/offence options and can tangle or strike from unexpected directions plus extra range.

[Bunnahabhain]

No. They may give extra reach , in a purely hand to hand weapon enviroment, but 40K is not supposed to be that. An assault in 40k is supposed to include pistols and other short range shooting. As such, the huge I boost does not fit the background at all.

[madden]

They've also got there storm bolters to hand as well so lots of avenues of attack to defend against and that slit second of decision to pick what to defend against I feel is well represented by the I boost (though in game and going against them a fair bit +1 would have been better.)

[theunwantedbeing]

Why would a halberd make you faster?
Also....aren't grey knights the one army who really doesn't need any sort of boost?

[Overlord Krycis]

I voted "No" but with the caveat that they should have an Init bonus in the first round of combat to represent the greater reach/spear-like qualities of the GK Halberds (they do look quite spear-like).
But basically being I6 all of the time?
No...just no.

What makes it worse is that their models in terminator armour have assault grenades meaning they are STILL I6 even after taking a Difficult terrain test.

I still remember the complaints of Typhus having the ability of assault grenades and being in terminator armour...now you can get an army of them lol.

[Johnnyb]

I went no, it makes asolutely no sense that a larger, more unweildy weapon makes you strike faster in close combat. But then again nor did the GK dex in general! I always thought that Grey Knights were anti Daemon.... turns out they were just anti Psyker all along!

[wyvirn]

It annoys me that many tyranid talons are longer than the blade of the halberd, but get no initiative bonus due to it. I would say they might get an +1 init bonus when charging or charged at the cost of weapon skill later to represent non ideal combat range, but then I would be applying logic to A) a war game, and B) Mat Wards Mary Sues. Of purity.

I agree with Konovalev.

[Konovalev]

This is a loaded question. There is an enormous difference between halberds giving +2 being fluffy or not, and any question whatsoever relating to grey knights. Because any question whatsoever relating to grey knights will see a huge amount of animosity from the more bitter players and this schews the results.

I vote no to the +2I to halberds in general. With a halberd you can strike at your opponent from beyond their reach making you harder to hit, it doesn't make you faster. I think inflicting a -1ws to enemies in close combat would then be more accurate.

[GrogDaTyrant]

I still remember the complaints of Typhus having the ability of assault grenades and being in terminator armour...now you can get an army of them lol.

I call that "loyalist marine syndrome". It's the concept that something that is complained about or called 'broken' by marine players, is suddenly viewed as 'balanced' or 'perfectly acceptable in the current environment' when a nearly identical rule benefits a loyalist marine chapter. Examples of this include (but are not limited to) Sustained Assault, now in the form of Blood Talons. Wound Allocation abuse units. And vehicles, especially AV-14 vehicles, ignoring melta/lance.

[Inquisitor Kallus]

I believe it has to do with the initiative of Bloodletters and Daemonettes. In the case of Blodletters the Grey Knights with halberds will always strike first evein if the letters charge giving them +1 initiative from furious charge. In the case of daemonettes it allows the Grey Knights to strike at the same time rather than just being wiped out by a quicker opponent.

After all, we cant have Grey Knights being bested by Daemons so easily now can we........

[AlphariusOmegon20]

aren't grey knights the one army who really doesn't need any sort of boost?

This !!!!

QFT.

[magnum12]

No, with the caveat that it should be either +1 I or counter attack instead.

[Lord Damocles]

No. It's stupid.

Are Grey Knights the only ones who have worked out how to use a polearm to hit the enemy sooner?

[althathir]

Why would a halberd make you faster?
Also....aren't grey knights the one army who really doesn't need any sort of boost?

I don't know, there is a big difference between grey knights with this dex, and the old daemon hunters book. You can't really look at the halberd as a boost because for as long as we've veiwed GK as broken they've had them.

I call that "loyalist marine syndrome". It's the concept that something that is complained about or called 'broken' by marine players, is suddenly viewed as 'balanced' or 'perfectly acceptable in the current environment' when a nearly identical rule benefits a loyalist marine chapter. Examples of this include (but are not limited to) Sustained Assault, now in the form of Blood Talons. Wound Allocation abuse units. And vehicles, especially AV-14 vehicles, ignoring melta/lance.

No I think most of those things are still considered broken , you can't find a 6th edition wishlist that doesn't have wound allocation as one of the first things people have suggestions for, and right now I think BT are the only book to have av 14 vehicles that ignore melta/lance (I doubt they'll have it after it BT get updated whenever that is). You may have a bigger part of the population support it, but they also tend to piss more people off. For example my eldar force has had the honor of being the only force people have played againist or the only one in my gaming group sustained assault on hawk exarchs not a big deal.

No. It's stupid.

Are Grey Knights the only ones who have worked out how to use a polearm to hit the enemy sooner?

As far as the OT, this sums it up.

[Angelwing]

It does seem a bit odd, but all my grey knights were built in the days before halberds did anything special. I shall enjoy this rule until it gets taken away in the next codex (the same way I enjoy / put up with rules in every single other codex).