I am working on a death korps army that I wanted to look like german soldiers. this is my latest adjustment,but I really start to think I am going too far with the nazi idea.
Would my army be too offensive for some people if I made all my soldiers with...well...swastika's?
even if the swastika is the holiest symbol in some religions .
OR i could change it to normal crosses or some other symbol,
tips are very welcome,but please don't yell at me like I am a neonazi or something
I am working on a death korps army that I wanted to look like german soldiers. this is my latest adjustment,but I really start to think I am going too far with the nazi idea.
Would my army be too offensive for some people if I made all my soldiers with...well...swastika's?
even if the swastika is the holiest symbol in some religions .
OR i could change it to normal crosses or some other symbol,
tips are very welcome,but please don't yell at me like I am a neonazi or something
I think most people would think it is in bad taste and many people would find it offensive. Although the symbol is apparently seen as quite positive in some religions, by painting them onto DKoK and saying you wanted them to look like German soldiers you seem to be going for a much more obvious association.
Fund Zomblogalypse, Now!Originally Posted by Hypaspist
yeah.true enough.think i'd go for a normal cross.much safer
I think a simple black X would work fine and still evoke the feel you are searching for without being as loaded a symbol.
The Tyranids don't hate. They don't yearn or care or fear. They can't be reasoned with."Oh great and mightly emperor whose light protects us all, the forces of chaos are nearing the palace, tell us what must we do to repause them.
A rumble is heard in the distance and the entire palace begins to groan.
As the dust of ages slowly falls from his body and his aura which seemed bright grows radiant beyond imagining, He begins to speak with a voice of thunder, " FORM FEET AND LEGS"
I think that you can still make the idea work but using a different symbol. Perhaps using one of your own, or even a stylised Imperial Aquila. A literal swastika would be pushing the boundaries however.
If you have to ask the question...
I'd change it to a cross or another symbol. Heck, I had a prop manager once go ballistic on me because I told him the military characters in the play needed red arm bands with black crosses on them - people can get upset over things that remind them of certain military factions, apparently.
...and a little help comes in a little glass vial in a gun pressed against her anatomy...
You can always file off your nipples, it's easily done.
I think I will change it to something like this
I think a cross is an easier and better idea anyway. Saves possible confrontation.
Personally, I'd refuse to play you. Most of the clubs and stores I've frequented over the years would probably ban the army (and quite likely you) on the spot. Much the same goes for very-slightly-different symbology that could be confused at 28mm scale and 6ft distant. It's not consistent with the Imperium or the Death Korps (whose infantry style owes more to WW1 French than anything WW2). Making an army that is basically an invocation of Godwin's Law has no other purpose than to be gratuitously offensive. It's a horrible idea and I suggest you drop it completely.
a normal templar cross can't be a problem. The red color looks good on the models and that's the only reason why I tried it,but i'll first ask my club if it's ok for them. Only then will I convert my army with the arm bands.
honestly,I had to google Godwin's law. you may be right,but wat has the uniform of an army to do with the beliefs of hitler?(drop the swastika,I did it too)
Are we going to pretend the Templar symbols that GW uses don't come directly from a medieval lineage that killed upwards of a million innocent people in various crusades around the Mideast and Eastern Europe? Not that using Nazi iconography isn't better, but lets not forget we play a game in which the good guys are supposed to utilize planetwide genocide as a regular tool in the suppression of their own people, and then have people dress up in costumes reenacting these admirable fantasy characters at conventions. If you're really that offended by the symbolism or would refuse to play against such an army I seriously suggest you reevaluate your own morality considering you play 40k in the first place. Then again no I dont think its proper either on DKOK, but as it has been mentioned before because they're based on WW1 soldiers, and as the descendant of a German WW1 veteran whom had to flee Germany on account of his Jewish heritage its not the most comfortable connection. In addition the swastika has no tenable connection to the 40k universe and at best would seem random, at worst a direct attempt to inflame feelings of others, despite their own shaky moral standing. However if one wished to paint red armbands on Steel Legionnaires and form twisted aquilas into swastikas I would dare one to challenge it as GW did base them off Nazi Fallschirmjäger. So no I don't think you crossed the line yourself, but others will think so. But people are dumb anyways and having paid roughly $70 for ten plastic army men I feel you have the right to enjoy them as you wish.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi
To perceive is to suffer. - Aristotle
I'm gonna chime in with has already been said, and just reccomend you drop the swatsitka. It doesn't really add anything to the model and most people will see it as needlessly inflammatory. If you were wanting make models that look like german soldiers form World War 2, I recommend purchasing those either in 28mm or something like Flames of War, which with its 1/100 scale you'll virtually never have to worry about painting swatstikas.
"Curse you Perry the Platypus!"
Maybe come back to the backstory of your army - what is their name? Planet of origin? Any notable major victories they might commemorate or heroic leaders whose personal heraldry is adopted as the regiment symbol?
These questions may give you a stronger idea on a particular armband/shoulder symbol to use. A skull or clenched fist might be a more generic 40k or death korp option, or if you think of some cool backstory a particular symbol might come naturally from that - say this regiment is known for fast deployment and rapid snatching of objectives - they may have adopted a raptor talon symbol as a point of pride.
If you start from the backstory then you will find something that works, makes you happy with your choice instead of worrying about others' reactions and personalises your army more.
Is drop the swastica completely. I know your probably not making an ideological statement, but it *is* a powerful and sensitive symbol. As with all symbols, its meaning is derived from its emotive connotations... and thanks to Hitler and friends the swastica will bring up a rather nasty image.
In terms of Nazi symbolism, if your army's paintscheme would be, literally, illegal in Germany its probably a good sign to leave it well alone.
Having said that, you could play with the symbolism in order to evoke a similar kind of totalitarian aesthetic without using Nazi symbols explicitly. Fictional worlds do it all the time.
For example, the steel legion have a lightning symbol that looks a little like the SS symbol, and several fictional universes (the latest one I saw, of the top of my head, was the latest series of Being Human) use red banners/armbands with black circles containing a white motif to represent horrible Nazi-like regimes but they avoid being explicit. It's far better to allude to how bad their regime is through a visual analogy - its better to say 'they are bad like the Nazis' than to say 'they are Nazis'.
Also, its probably worth noting you can go the whole wwii German route without invoking Nazis. Remember, the werhmacht was just an army that happened to have a horrible regime in place. Many German soldiers were not dedicated Nazis but simple German soldiers, often conscripts, told who to go and shoot by the wrong elite.
Last edited by baphomael; 25-04-2012 at 20:58.
If you are dead-set on using the red armbands, do something like these and use something similar but NOT a piece of inflammatory and pointless iconography. And even then it still seems kind of tacky to me, to put it nicely.
Quite frankly, even if it wasn't daft and offensive, I think that adding details that small seems to be beyond your modeling and painting skill (not that you are a bad painter, it's just a very fiddly detail on a 28mm figure). The example posted looks crude and blobby. It also seems to be contrary to the Death Korps asthetic which is fairly practical and understated (for 40k), exactly the kind of style where you don't expect your troops to wear bright red armbands into battle. I'm fairly sure that not even the actual nazis used to wear them on anything other than dress uniforms.
EDIT: apparently (accordig to about five minutes of google research, so not really an authorative source) the red armbands weren't worn as part of any german military uniform in WWII. The guys with red armbands are politicians and various kinds of political enforcer. Even the Waffen SS don't seem to have worn them.
Last edited by Perfect Organism; 26-04-2012 at 00:55.
That would be because only the SS had any direct connection to the Nazi party while regular soldiers were a mix of political affiliations. I think the implications of this make a project like this even more absurd and offensive.
Yes, totally inappropriate as far as I am concerned.
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I think with these types of ideas go along the lines of 'if I have to ask, then it is probably a bad idea' it's not like an 'is this feasible proxy/count as?' question.
You are all very kind but I think it needs to be said that the OP is a bit dull
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