las-plas razor and weapon destroyed

[VirtualSniper]

I just saw that in the rule book faq

Q: When a Damaged – Weapon Destroyed result is
rolled and a weapon is destroyed are any built-in,
combi or co-axial weapons attached to it also
destroyed? (p61)
A: Yes.

So I was wondering what happens when you destroy a turret on a razorback that contains a lascannon and a TL plasma cannon. Are they not considered co-axial weapons, since they are on the same turret? Are they both destroy or only one of them?

[druchii]

They're different weapons.

Regardless of how the actual model LOOKS, they're listed as two separate weapons therefore they are.

d

[VirtualSniper]

I just found out it is clearly state in the SM faq.

[Culven]

So I was wondering what happens when you destroy a turret on a razorback that contains a lascannon and a TL plasma cannon. Are they not considered co-axial weapons, since they are on the same turret? Are they both destroy or only one of them?

A Weapon Destroyed result destroys one weapon. The Turret isn't a single weapon, it contains two weapons. Since there is no mention of them being co-axial, they are not considered as such.

[S_A_T_S]

Just in case someone needs it:

Q: If a Razorback armed with a lascannon and twinlinked
plasma gun suffers a weapon destroyed result,
does it destroy both weapons or just one? (77)
A: Only one weapon – either the lascannon or the twinlinked
plasma gun.

[Charistoph]

For an example of the first quoted FAQ, please see the Marine Dreadnought's DCCW.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

The inclusion of the "co-axial" term in the basic rules is kind of odd. It's not anywhere else, and in fact the last time I remember seeing it was in the Vehicle Design Rules somewhere in 3rd edition (is it in some Apocalypse super-heavy somewhere now?). We assume, and the FAQ confirms, that this is what the "co-axial" term is referring to - the long-extinct special rule from optional rules of two editions past (or at least something I'm unaware of from the extended ruleset).

I will confess rather more sympathy than usual for the original question. There's no special rule for "turret" yet we all know what a turret-mounted weapon means when the rules refer to one by dint of it being obviously mounted on a turret. In the current edition there's no special rules for co-axial weapons, so why wouldn't a weapon which is, in fact, obviously mounted co-axially, qualify? Precisely because such a rule exists somewhere else, as far as I can tell.

[VirtualSniper]

Thank you for the explanation, Nurgling Chieftain.

This is why I asked the question, because for me, they are co-axially mounted. As I was not aware of an old rule about coaxial weapons, if it weren't for the SM faq making it clear what is the rule for a las/plas, for me there would not be a definitive answer to that.

[Chapters Unwritten]

For an example of the first quoted FAQ, please see the Marine Dreadnought's DCCW.

The dreadnought's weapons on it's arm are listed as "built-in" - I suspect this will be more clearly defined next edition.

[Seattledv8]

FW does have some vehicles with co-axial weapons.

[Charistoph]

Q: When a Damaged – Weapon Destroyed result is
rolled and a weapon is destroyed are any built-in,
combi or co-axial weapons attached to it also
destroyed? (p61)
A: Yes.

The dreadnought's weapons on it's arm are listed as "built-in" - I suspect this will be more clearly defined next edition.

Exactly, and I hope so as well. GW has shown itself to be quite fast and loose with its rules, though, so I don't expect it.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

Honestly, I'd say the dreadnoughts' arm weapons were more clearly defined this edition. While the ruling itself has never changed (if you blow off the DCCW, the storm bolter/heavy flamer has always gone with it), the wording behind it has become much stronger. It's listed as a built-in weapon, and weapon-destroyed says built-in weapons go along with the main weapon. How much clearer can it really get?

[carldooley]

of course, then someone has to mention Manticore missiles. one weapon destroyed result destroys all the remaining missiles - on the turret.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

Maybe the hit just disables the targeting mechanisms. Similar amusement with smart missile systems and typhoons, both of which are single multi-shot weapons split on either side of the hull!

[ehlijen]

of course, then someone has to mention Manticore missiles. one weapon destroyed result destroys all the remaining missiles - on the turret.

Not the same case: a manticore launcher is one weapon system with a special rule that allows it to fire only four times per game. It is not four different missiles. Of course one weapon destroyed result will destroy the entire one manticore launcher.

[Glen_Savet]

FW does have some vehicles with co-axial weapons.

Does not the Imperial Guard book have some options to co-axially mount stubbers on some tanks?

[chromedog]

No, it doesn't. Just pintle mounts.

It's only the FW models with co-ax mounts. An Apoc rules where it counts.

[Finn]

The Baneblade and most of its variants have that co-axial autocannon for their main guns, which allows it to be more accurate for targeting purposes.

It's listed as "Baneblade cannon with co-axial autocannon". Only the main weapon is listed as Primary Weapon, which gives it that 4+ save. So on a Weapon Destroyed result, can your opponent be cheeky and destroy the autocannon, taking the Baneblade cannon along with it? I don't see any reason why one couldn't destroy the co-axial weapon. Am I correct in this? Due to the wording of the Primary Weapon rules, the Baneblade cannon should still get its 4+ save against being Destroyed but it seems like you could destroy the autocannon no matter what and still get a shot at destroying the Baneblade cannon, whereas if you allocated the Destroyed result to the Baneblade cannon the autocannon would only be affected if the Primary Weapon save was failed.

Or am I just flat out wrong in thinking that co-axial works both ways?

Then again, this would be in Apocalypse and if somebody actually tried that in one of my games I'd put the kibosh on it right quick.

[TheGreatDalmuti]

Is the main cannon a built-in, combi or co-axial weapon? No. So it doesn't get destroyed along with the co-axial autocannon.

[LawL LawL]

Ok this last little clash of rule specifics is rather silly. I think it was the SM Dreadnought FAQ that clarified this, but whenever a weapon with a built-in weapon is destroyed, you take the lesser of the two weapons with it. If your opponent, whether by faulty logic or simply friendly game-play, decides to choose the in-built storm-bolter, hvy-flamer, or such, your DCCW stays. In the case of the Main cannon and co-axial autocannon, I would assume the same goes.