Empire Battalion

[Spiney Norman]

In what way? What shines about it for you?

I'm looking at a "Not quite enough" unit of melee Core, a "Near overpriced" unit of ranged Core, an "Ancient and no longer in-scale" unit of mounted Core (or I suppose Special (?) depending on how you use them), and a warmachine that can be built as a "rather effective" cannon or a "you want how many points for that?" mortar.

It's not a very efficient army building block (then again, neither was the previous one due to the knights) - you buy maybe two and then you start drowning in knights with subsequent purchases. Even then you're lacking in Core infantry, which is sort of a travesty for the Empire.

Hell...40 melee State Troops and 10 ranged State Troops would have been more sensible than this.

I don't know, battalions always seem to be a bit on the weird side for contents, due in large part to 6th edition and earlier sprues that were made with 4-men-ranks in mind.

I think you need to ask yourself what is the purpose of a battalion. Can I suggest that when the GW exec answers this question the answer "providing existing Empire players with a cheap way to get hold of our overpriced greatswords" is not very high on his list.

Battalions have always been about giving someone who is just starting the army a kickstart with a slight saving. As such a cannon is much, much more use than a worthlessly small unit of greatswords.

10 Greatswords was a stupid thing for a new player to get hold of, to even begin to make use of them you need to triple the size of the unit, which means spending another £50 just to get the unit off the ground. Cannons on the other hand are an absolute staple of the list and are a great thing to give a new player. Add to that what vaguely competent Empire player would include a unit of greatswords below about 1500pts minimum anyway? They're generally something you add in at higher points value games, if ever.

It's a shame handgunners are in there, but I guess GW is still in denial about how badly they have nerfed an already sub-par unit, and could you really envisage an Empire batallion without any knights?

And if the price has dropped to £60 as some are suggesting that accounts for the £10 drop in total value, in fact as a percentage of the original cost of the contents, you are actually saving more.

What is indeed the pinnacle of idiocy is that they still insist on packaging the knights in sets of 8, which is either 2 too few, or 2 too many for the only viable methods of fielding them.

[madden]

One reason for 8 knights might be to use one as a general and another as a captain giving you lord/hero core and special all in one place it's still a good deal for a starter or adding to excisting army (except the cannon and maybe knights).

[Brother Dimetrius]

Looks like a good box for new players to quickly get a small army going. An infantry unit, a cavalry unit, some missle troops and a war machine.

Considerations of cost-effectiveness are besides the point. Batallions are not precission engineered for maximum benefit for the minmaxing player. Nor should they be. Besides, reader beware of all things deemed "broken" and "useless" by the internet

[Walls]

I still haven't seen any evidence of this new batallion. It just sounds like their old one.

[loveless]

I think you need to ask yourself what is the purpose of a battalion. Can I suggest that when the GW exec answers this question the answer "providing existing Empire players with a cheap way to get hold of our overpriced greatswords" is not very high on his list.

Battalions have always been about giving someone who is just starting the army a kickstart with a slight saving. As such a cannon is much, much more use than a worthlessly small unit of greatswords.

10 Greatswords was a stupid thing for a new player to get hold of, to even begin to make use of them you need to triple the size of the unit, which means spending another £50 just to get the unit off the ground. Cannons on the other hand are an absolute staple of the list and are a great thing to give a new player. Add to that what vaguely competent Empire player would include a unit of greatswords below about 1500pts minimum anyway? They're generally something you add in at higher points value games, if ever.

Did I mention Greatswords? I didn't mean to if I did. My complaint's always focused on the knight models and their weird (but financially understandable) count and quality. The Greatswords were a rather "bleh" addition to the previous Battalion as well, I'd rather have more Core than all of it, which would be just as kick-start-y. The Vampire Counts one is decent, save for the overkill on wolves. The Ogre one is solid as well.

I suppose Battalions are less repeatable than Battleforces in terms of building armies.

It's a shame handgunners are in there, but I guess GW is still in denial about how badly they have nerfed an already sub-par unit, and could you really envisage an Empire batallion without any knights?

As long as they're still putting in 8 with war ponies, I can dream about a batallion without knights

And if the price has dropped to £60 as some are suggesting that accounts for the £10 drop in total value, in fact as a percentage of the original cost of the contents, you are actually saving more.

What is indeed the pinnacle of idiocy is that they still insist on packaging the knights in sets of 8, which is either 2 too few, or 2 too many for the only viable methods of fielding them.

The price is fine, the contents are still questionable, though. In their current form and quantity, the knights are a weird choice.

[decker_cky]

Beastmen battalion is the worst at a cursory glance, but it's the best because you can buy 3 copies of the battalion and regularly use every part of the battalion.

The new empire battalion is a nice place to start. Probably worth buying 2 for new players (a pair of cannons, 20 crossbows, 40 state troops, and either a big block of inner circle knights, or 3 groups of reiksguard. Pretty much the same battalion as the pre-greatsword battalion isn't it? Or the one before that?

[Not-not-kenny]

The VC battalion is just stupid, I mean, how many corpse carts do you really need?

[Aeron]

This is indeed a very poor deal.

I much prefer a helblaster than a cannon - just for the fun factor. How many cannons does one person need?! I remember when the Goldswords were put into the battalion box and everyone on here shouted to high heaven!!

I think the best battalions are Brets and Lizardmen (they are less than £46 from some discount stores.) And the Lizardmen battalion comes with Temple guard. Two Lizzy battalions and thats a very solid core of an army. Just sprinkle with rares specials and characters to taste!

Nate

[mamadragon]

As the Uniforms and Heraldry book is "temporarily unavailable" on the GW site, are there any rumours to indicate a re-vamp on that as well, or just a price hike?

[Walls]

I think people are living in an alternate universe, lol.

I can see the Heraldry Book on both the Canadian and US versions of the site. There is no batallion however, nor evidence it's changing.

[DarthSte]

The new battalion that BramGaunt mentions sounds great for people starting a new army. Nothing in there interests me though. Already got well over a hundred state troops, 30 knights, 4 cannons/mortars... If they'd put some Griff Knights I'd be interested.

Would be nice if the did a reinforcement battalion like they did with the second wave from the last army book.

[gilljoy]

My local shop has the old style £145 army box, may pick that up since its basically two old style batallions joined together with some extras.

Though if the new set is only £60 its not that bad a deal.

[zoggin-eck]

The new set sounds OK for what it is, a starter set. Then again, I've never felt as stongly about the barded horses as some apparently do. GW really only advertise them as a convenient way/suggestion of how to start an army, not the money saving deal I used to think they were.

Not sure what people expect from the beastmen battalion, considering the number of plastic kits they have to work with. For interest, I would have thought they'd lose a few gors and put in hounds, but I guess they mightn't want them in two battalions. At least this time around they have actually one.

[Far2Casual]

Are they really still trolling us with 8 knights boxes ? REALLY ?

[Jerry]

I hate the new trend GW is going down to not include new kits in battalions. TK, VC and now Empire have battalions without anything new. Gone are the days when you could expect something new in the battalion... OnG had boar boys, Beastmen at least get new kits since bestigors/ungors/gors are all new to their release, skaven have clanrats and stormvermin. I think every army battalion in 7th came with a new kit - dark elves had cold ones and corsairs.
I think all the new 8th edition battalions haven't had any new kit except OnG which is probably to be expected for future 8th releases then...

[Gandalf the Gay]

I think all the new 8th edition battalions haven't had any new kit except OnG which is probably to be expected for future 8th releases then...

Boar boyz were not new models when the Battalion came out, IIRC.

And considering what kind of units have been added to the armies of 8th ed, it should be for obvious reasons they are not adding them to the battalion.

[DarthSte]

The boar boyz came out quite a few months before. Savage Orc boar boyz were new - but not included.

[Jerry]

Boar boyz were not new models when the Battalion came out, IIRC.
And considering what kind of units have been added to the armies of 8th ed, it should be for obvious reasons they are not adding them to the battalion.

Oh dear they must've been released in a different wave D: none the less still new-ish.
I could see the Ogre battalion with an Ironblaster I mean some other battalions have something along the lines of a 1 piece chariot/cannon. Although I do see some problems aren't battalions, except the beastmen battalion, 4 sets anyway?

[Killgore]

I can’t see what the problem is.

People who already own a reasonable sized Empire army tend not to need Battalions and for a new player they are very useful.

This new Battalion is up on Wayland for £48, why not just buy that and sell the Knights for something like £10, even with postage you will get the equivalent of a free cannon which is always useful in larger games.

[ac4155]

All looks pretty good to me and i'll more than likely pick this up from wayland. Then again I'm just starting Empire so have hardly any models for them.